This is gonna get taken down

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by 1stMidnight, Jun 7, 2021.

  1. 1stMidnight
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    1stMidnight Member

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    I just want to point out some staff hypocrisy. I know staff won't like this, and will probably take it down or mute me, but I don't care.

    Most of these happened with the same player, who I will not name.

    -Player severely harassed me and multiple of my friends on different occasions and very rarely received punishments.

    -Player with a history of harassment gets a 7 day mute for death threats, while I receive a 30-day ban for telling a racist to commit die. This is back when my only ban on the server was for fly hacking.

    -Player encouraged me to break rules, with evidence. During the days before my final ban/perm ban, one of my friends said they encouraged me to do something because it was funny (I was encouraged to do the same thing by other player), and was given a 14-day ban when they had no previous bans. The other player received zero punishment despite having an immense warning and ban history. They were banned at the time for harassment. If you want to know what it was I did/was encouraged to do, DM me on discord at
    ! Midnight#5090.

    Overall, I find the lack of transparency and blatant bias by the staff team very concerning. I was told to contact staff after my previous offense, and followed instructions but was completely ignored. When I received my permanent ban, it was 3 days after the end of my 21-day ban. I was not on the server during these 3 days. I was banned without an official ban reason and had to contact someone with staff connections to even find out why I was banned. The person with staff contacts, who was not a member of the staff team, had far more information on my ban than the staff was willing to even give me, the person they banned. Instead, they chose to share information with an unrelated player.

    This isn't to say my perm ban wasn't deserved. By this point, I had a hefty ban history of trolling and was on thin ice. I broke the ice. Since then, I have matured a lot and I realize what I did because I was "bored" was extremely immature and harmful to the community, but I highly doubt the staff will believe that, and I don't expect them to. I just hope for more transparency and fairness in the future.

    DM me with any questions at
    ! Midnight#5090
     
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  2. Borahae
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    Borahae hyyh Moderator Premium Premium

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    Sorry that your experience hasn't be pleasant. I want to ask you a few questions to understand what happened.
    Did you make reports on these players with evidence that this was happening? Did your friends make reports too? Can you be 100% certain staff did not punish these players? A punishment may not always be apparent or visible.

    Did the same staff punish both you? What did the player say to get the 7 day mute? Getting a different punishment doesn't always mean bias. We treat everyone as individuals so punishments can vary. A 30 day ban is appealable. If you understand the severity of your actions and apologise there is no reason an unban would occur.

    You mention that your friend encouraged you to do something then got 14 days. Was the other player reported? With moderating we can only see so much. If the other player wasn't reported then we wouldn't have been able to act on it. This is why it is extremely important for people to understand that Staff don't intentionally do these things. We just didn't see. We are human too so we act on what we see first and rely on reports for what we missed.

    The problem with this thread is it is your perspective only. The story isn't fully told. And putting it out there like this without evidence to support what you are saying is merely speculation.
    If you want to properly address the bias in the staff team it would be good to make a staff report or bring together the staff involved and the players involved (your friend etc) and actually talk this out.

    Fairness and bias being of concern, what do you want us to do in order to become more fair? Do you think we can achieve this? Simply put, how can we be fair in a server where we have many different levels of offences, circumstances, personalities and contexts and where we cannot possibly monitor every person. We can only be as fair as we can but people are always going to compare their punishments without understanding why before deciding it is staff at fault. What kind of fairness are you seeking?

    Maybe i'm old fashioned but just don't break our rules and nothing like this will ever occur. Don't listen to others telling you to break rules and be responsible.
    Staff will do our part to reflect on what happened and try and handle things better. Only those involved know the full story and thus they will need to explain their side. With speculation we can only do so much.

    Please explain everything in detail in a staff report or DMs and we can go from there. Thank you
     
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  3. RedstoneTrails
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    RedstoneTrails Well-Known Member

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    It's generally rare for staff to directly tell other players why a player was banned, unless it's a situation where the ban reasons were pretty clearly obvious.

    Generally, what happens more often is the portion of the Skyblock community paying attention to things quickly piece together what's going on with situations. Before I was staff and after I was staff, I knew way more about things going on in and outside of the server than I ever knew as staff. Players talk to other players, and information spreads pretty quickly. If you hang around enough in Discord, you'll see all sorts of chat logs, pictures of players islands, screenshots of Discord DMs, all just floating around building a bigger picture of the server and everything happening.

    99% of the time when staff refuse to tell you why you were banned, it's because the ban should be extremely obvious to you. Staff know what you did, you should know what you did (assuming you have some degree of self-awareness).

    Side thought, but this is a sentiment that has always really grinded my gears. The only bias the staff team has is a collection of how good or bad someone's history is, and how interactions with that player on Discord, Forums, or in-game have usually gone. This bias gets smoothed out through the ban and appeals process, as other staff members can give inputs or opinions to make sure all sides are seen.

    Staff don't care about your rank. They don't hold blatant grudges. All they care about is your behavior on and off of Minecraft.

    As for transparency, if you're a new player, you get full transparency. Staff will tell you what you did wrong, refer you to the rules, and lessen your punishment if you seem to be apologetic and genuinely care.

    The longer you've been on the server, especially if you've been punished a lot, the more you're expected to understand the rules, and the less transparency I think you're owed. If you've been knowingly breaking rules, you shouldn't act surprised when you get banned or expect a ban reason. You know you were breaking rules, and staff know for a fact that you know you were breaking rules.



    All that said, I know very little about you or your situation. The things you said echo'd the comments of some other players over the years, and I've always remained mostly silent on it, growing ever frustrated with this idea.

    The current staff team is just a bunch of fun loving goofs, I don't see why everyone tries to go out and paint them as some maniacal all powerful force trying to rain terror upon the land. They're all doing their best. Sometimes they make mistakes, but those mistakes also always get corrected. Things aren't always going to be perfect, but they're nowhere near as bad as this post makes it sound.
     
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  4. 1stMidnight
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    I never said it was rank-based bias. I gave specific examples of how another player was treated much more kindly than me and my friends, despite them having a much more extensive history. One of my friends did the same thing as the player and got a 14-day ban. The player hadn't been banned a single time, only muted once for politics. The other play had been banned multiple times, was currently banned for harassment and had a large mute/ban history. In the death threats example, it was before I had any history besides a ban for fly hacking. I told a person clearly being racist to do it. The other player, who at this time, had a ban/mute history of harassment, told an average player to do it. They received a much less harsh punishment. It almost seems like you didn't even read the post.
    Not what I am trying to do. What I am trying to do is point out how they allow their non-staff friends to get away with stuff and receive less harsh punishment.
    I have asked for minor information on bans before and was immediately refused to hear it. Friends of staff, however, are apparently free to get as much info as they want. I was not aware of any clear reason. I received a 21-day ban, which I served out, and 3 days after it expired, I was perm banned. I was not on the server during these 3 days. It was extremely confusing to me why. I had to ask 2 people with staff contacts to get the answer. The answer was that during the 21 days, "they were deciding whether or not to perm ban you but forgot then decided".
     
  5. RedstoneTrails
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    RedstoneTrails Well-Known Member

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    Krissy already responded to all of that, I didn't see a need to repeat what she said when you still haven't answered her questions. I just mentioned the ranks since that's a common one players bring up when going on this rant.

    Once again, Krissy already responded to this part, and I have no interest in repeating everything she said.

    If you truly believe this, you are extremely misguided.

    Your forums history tells a very opposite story... this one, this one, this one, and this one all show staff taking the time to fully explain situations to you and come to an understanding. I'm not sure where you were asking for information on your bans, but if it was anywhere other than the forums, it was in the wrong place. Discord DMs are a nightmare for staff and records. In-game chat is also generally a pretty bad place. Forums is the best place, where all staff can see and choose to respond. If you asked in Discord public chat, that is the worst of the worst place to try and start any drama.



    I'd suggest responding to Krissy's post before mine. She said all of the important things, I just went on a rant. If the staff team was as biased as you said, even slightly, I would've been roasting the staff team from the moment I quit. Posts like yours had hyped me up going into the staff team thinking I'd learn of dark secrets and see all sort of internal favoritism and stuff going on. In reality, there was none of that. You're clouding your own judgement by viewing everything from a very restricted lens instead of viewing the bigger picture and trying to understand other points of view.
     
  6. 1stMidnight
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    I have been talking to Krissy in discord DMs.

    I was instructed to open a forum conversation by staff, which I did. They didn't respond to it at all, after 3 weeks and me telling them it was created. The answers I received in discord were vague and tried to brush past the fact the other player did not get punished. I only received more detailed information on my ban by other players, not staff. The thing I was encouraged to do was told to many other players. Not a single one thinks my friend should have been banned for 2 weeks given the fact he had zero ban history. As said before, if you want to know what that thing was, DM me on discord at ! Midnight#5090.

    I understand my perm ban. I'm upset about the bias and favoritism I've seen. I have also reported the same player for harassing me and my friends multiple times, and little action was taken.
     
  7. Mai
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    Mai serendipity Moderator Premium Premium

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    I just want to add something as I've experienced being a non-staff member and a staff member.

    It gets a little tiring to hear players constantly call the staff team biased when things do not go their way. Don't get me wrong, the team has plenty of things to work on, however we are all human and we make mistakes so it makes sense that we're not perfect.

    There were definitely better ways to approach this issue. You assumed that a staff member went ahead and told other players staff related information. That is quite the allegation. If you do not have solid evidence of this happening, please do not say things like this as it may very well be untrue.

    When you talk this way about a person, in this case a staff member, you are disrespecting their professionalism in regards to this issue. If you feel strongly about this situation, it would have been more appropriate to create a staff report or contact the team directly rather than create a thread that targets a staff member and the team as a whole.

    Players could have easily figured out your ban reason because as you said, you had quite the history. It's not hard to put two and two together. I'm sorry to hear that you haven't gotten a direct answer, however creating a thread like this seems more of an attack than you 'asking for transparency'.

    You intentionally broke the rules and got yourself banned. To get perm banned takes a lot. You disrespected both the community and it's rules, so instead of once again trying to paint staff members as 'the bad guy', continue reflecting on your past actions and understand why you are in this situation in the first place.
     
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  8. PCcoolguy100
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    PCcoolguy100 Experienced Member

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    I don’t like voicing my opinions on topics like these often and only do it when it needs to be done. I was redirected here while conversing with someone about the structure of the team and why there is an imbalance, however in this case it’s more of a you problem than a staff/bias problem. There may be an imbalance with the team, but there is generally no bias on the punishment handed out to the players. You got yourself into this mess, there is only one way out of it, take some time off, dust yourself off, permabans do not come easy, and only come after you’ve done enough to deserve it. I’m no different, I’ve been on the receiving end of punishments like these before too, but never once have I complained about the infraction I’ve been given, regardless to whether I felt it was deserved or not.

    Staff’s word is staff’s word, you need to follow it. Failure to follow the rule’s and/or instructions given to you by staff members will result in punishment, and I’m sure you understand this. Currently I’m the only non- ex- or current staff member posting here but I don’t believe my words will be taken any different to theirs, maybe without the extra power that my words may give.

    The mods get sick of callouts of bias, and I hate to say I do contribute to it, however I try to understand why this happens instead of outright flaming them and slandering them by saying “err the other guy got more punished than i did this bias”. If you were responsible and mature, you wouldn’t have followed the encouragement of this other person in the first place, or broken any rules in the first place, or tried to pin the cause of your bans on the bias you feel you have received.

    Even though I’m not active here anymore, I will be following this thread as it may answer the questions I have. But please, keep it civil too, you’ve already been given instructions by staff members, just remember to do the very least and follow them.
     
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  9. 1stMidnight
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    1stMidnight Member

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    Mai, I do have very very solid evidence of this happening, and of players being told information. If I hadn't, I would not have created this. I will likely provide screenshots to Krissy tomorrow.

    The reason I was confused about my ban is that it happened 3 days after I finished out my latest ban. I was given no ban message. I was under the impression that I served my sentence for my latest offense, and was certainly not thinking I would wake up to be permabanned.

    MY PERM BAN WAS FAIR. I AM NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT THAT. I may appeal in 6 months - 1 year, but this is not an appeal.

    This is almost 2 months after my ban. If I was mad about that, I would have done something sooner.

    You're right, I should have approached this differently, but quite frankly I feel like other people should know.
     
  10. 1stMidnight
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    1stMidnight Member

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    My perm ban was an example of information leaking, PC. I was upset because other players received information on my ban, but I was not able to even discuss the possibility of the other player in this situation getting rightfully punished "because it is none of my business". One of my friends got banned yet this other person did the same thing and didn't. As I said, Krissy is getting much more detail than people are on this post.

    The bias comes where my ban is SIGNIFICANTLY more extreme than someone who did the same offense (death threats). The bias comes when the player has repeatedly harassed me and my friends (with a LOAD of evidence being submitted) and evaded punishment. The bias comes when he does the same thing as my friend, and only my friend gets punished despite my friend having nearly no punishment history.
     
  11. Calidre
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    Calidre Well-Known Member

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    The punishment system is set up the same as a judicial system for the most part. You do something against the rules, you get banned. You can appeal the ban, have along conversations with the staff members and they will decide if it was a rightful decision or if it was well deserved. You then can continue to wait out the ban and try to show the team you're improving and that it should be reconsidered.

    The same thing works in a court of law. You do something illegal, you're arrested, and then you set a up a trial date. The appeal is like the trial in court where the judge will decide your sentence and whether you are prove guilty or innocent. You have options to over time get parole or shorten your sentence by proving you can be a better person.

    The system in place here also is similar when it comes to bias. Everyone will have bias, doesn't matter who you are. If you have legitimate complaints about unreasonable treatment there isn't really a point in making a thread like this and it's better to talk to them. Like redstone said, it sounds more like attacks than criticism.

    In a court of law, you don't complain about the guy in the next room over getting a shorter sentence than you for a different crime and history, same thing would apply here. There is a lot of factors that come in to play when deciding the fate of someones ability to rehabilitate, or in the case of Minecraft, stay on the server. Ban history, type of punishment, severity of the punishment, player's overall attitude, etc. When it comes to the actual punishment given out, whether you personally believe there is bias or not, I think that punishments given are fairly evaluated by the satff team.

    When it comes to a real court room, information is only made public with permission. Most of what happens is private within that room. You don't go asking the judge about all of the other cases he's had where the same or different offences were made, you focus on yours. Same thing applies. From what's been said, when it comes to punishments multiple staff evaluate each one individually because as I said, there's a variety of circumstances surrounding each case.

    Take that what you will, that's just how I see the situation
     
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  12. 1stMidnight
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    1stMidnight Member

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    Then why was my ban information leaked?

    Also, ban history was clearly not taken into account with others. Please read my responses to PC and Mai, as I'm sick of having to write a new paragraph to respond to similar statements.
     
  13. Calidre
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    Calidre Well-Known Member

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    Stuff gets around, I don't necessarily agree with that I also believe it should be kept private. I agree it shouldn't have but that kind of thing happens a lot unfortunately.

    You must have not read mine properly. "In a court of law, you don't complain about the guy in the next room over getting a shorter sentence than you for a different crime and history, same thing would apply here. There is a lot of factors that come in to play when deciding the fate of someones ability to rehabilitate, or in the case of Minecraft, stay on the server. Ban history, type of punishment, severity of the punishment, player's overall attitude, etc." quoting myself here, it's not your job to decide how other people get punished you don't ask the judge about his other cases, same way you don't ask a staff member about friend's appeals. It's their own job to question or agree with it. If you believe that a real issue is at hand then just talk to them individually or ask for multiple opinions on it from staff. Like I also said, this thread isn't solving any problems, just making your side of the story known. You posted a public thread and people are allowed to respond with their feedback, you made the choice to make this so we are allowed to respond with how we see the story from our side.
     
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  14. RedstoneTrails
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    RedstoneTrails Well-Known Member

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    You haven't made other people aware to anything, this whole thread has been kept impressively vague. It's strange to say you have such hard evidence, yet choose not to share or provide any sort of information to defend your points. I'm also a bit confused on why the screenshots have to wait to be sent.

    If you do truly have very solid evidence, I'd suggest to just stop fighting over semantics and opinions in this thread and get on with providing that evidence to staff. Throwing around random accusations at nobody in particular in the middle of the town square isn't really productive for anyone.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 8, 2021 at 1:06 PM
  15. PCcoolguy100
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    PCcoolguy100 Experienced Member

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    Then it may be a mistake or a delayed punishment by a higherup that was meant to be administered earlier, but like everything on this server, came far too late. When I was permbanned, it was still 5 or 6 days after I originally started being investigated (I know this because Noobcrew locked my rares. I was banned nearly a week after this happened). It takes time to get further evidence and proof to warrant a permban, and in this case it may have taken longer.

    I’m honestly surprised I wasn’t reperma’d after getting a 30d after 2 permbans. But this thread isn’t about me, it’s about you using terms that don’t fully represent the situation at hand.

    This case isn’t exactly bias. There’s too many unknowns in your case to properly figure out why this happened from an outside view, I’m sure the staff will figure it out but it comes with time. You needn’t have made this thread, it just adds another big variable to your name and potentially deepens your case further. This person could’ve received a lesser ban term because of a reason that wasn’t shared to you or publicly, or deep evidence could have been used against you (such as server logs or vanished devs/mods).

    You should at the very least be given an explanation, which can be done privately. This thread really wasn’t needed.
     
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  16. 1stMidnight
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    1stMidnight Member

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    There is hard evidence that is being handled with staff. The reason I haven't publically posted these screenshots is to protect the anonymity of the other people involved. Everything I stated is true, with evidence.
     
  17. Calidre
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    Calidre Well-Known Member

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    You could cross out names and pictures and stuff but you don't have to do that, if it's being dealt with privately that's great anyways. I think most of us just don't see the reason for this thread if you're dealing with the situation privately anyways
     
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  18. 1stMidnight
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    You are very allowed to respond. I'm not trying to make it so people can't. I do want to say, I disagree with the analogy. In a real court of law, there is a community jury of people who are presented the evidence in the case, who decide if the defendant is guilty or not guilty. The death threats incident wouldn't be a big deal if it wasn't SUCH a situational difference. To most people, the other player should be punished more than me but instead, they got a significantly less harsh sentence.
     
  19. 1stMidnight
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    To be fair, the reason I made the forum publically is that I highly doubted staff to respond, as they haven't in the past when I've brought up concerns. I appreciate the staff proving me wrong though.
     
  20. Calidre
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    Calidre Well-Known Member

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    The jury would be the rest of the staff team that aren't directly handling the case since most of them wouldn't have had any interactions with that player. It's also just an analogy it's not meant to be a direct comparison in every aspect.

    Also like PC said, not everything is made public sometimes and there may very well be good reasons for the length of the bans in comparison to one another, staff won't always reveal every aspect of their reasoning, hence the hidden messages in some appeals.
    They do take this stuff seriously, they just choose to not respond if they know the person making the claims is being totally ignorant or rude, but they obviously saw you have reasoning and so they responded because it's not just some idiot getting mad at everyone, and I'm not surprised it was Krissy responding first as she is very open about this kind of stuff
     

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