Religion is simply a word. Someone being "religious" can mean a hundred thousand different things. Zamb, if I could, I would do away with the word "religion" all together, because people misconstrued what the Bible is trying to teach, all by labeling it "religion." Even if you take the Bible out of this(which I am not) you are still left with nature. Yes, there have been some animals who have committed homosexual, or what may seem homosexual, acts, but that does not mean two male dogs have any kind of "attraction" towards each other. No species of plant, animal, or any other living organism you could think of, has had, or will have homosexual tendencies or "desires" like humans have. Humans are naturally set apart from plants and animals, I'm not saying they aren't, but I am saying that if all this came about by the world "reproducing" itself, why would it suddenly change the laws of nature?

As far as feelings are concerned, it's not a concrete building block, or basis, for why homosexuality should be considered the norm, or even "ok." An example would be like: someone who is in love with a goat, and they feel strongly towards the goat, does that make it ok for them to "be in a relationship" with a goat? This, for the most part, mindless beast that can't love a human like that? Again, I'm using extreme examples to get the point across. If homosexuality was meant to be the norm, why can't homosexuals reproduce naturally? Why are there so many diseases coming about from something that is(supposedly) natural, and "real." Not only is homosexuallity unatural, it's also dangerous. Why would someone want to be in a relationship that they KNOW is natural dangerous, and for the most part, a complete risk of their lives, just to be "happy."

As for God "allowing" for homosexuality to exist, he did not. God made us with a conscience and the ability to make our own choices and choose right from wrong. He set laws for us, because he loved us, and didn't want us to get hurt or die. But, we chose wrongfully. We chose to follow our own selfish desires and commit acts of hate and jealousy. So, no, god did not create homosexuality. He created us with a choice, and we have to live with the consequences of our choices. Yes, Jesus died on the cross and took our sins away, but that does not mean we cannot sin.... it simply means that, for the ones who believe in Him, he wipes the sins clean, and forgives them. He died for us, and we still decide to deny Him, and disobey Him.

A church is only somewhere where people actually believe what God said. Many people say they have churches, but they are actually cults.... people who worship Satan and think HE is God.

I just want to address the above quote... I know that there are thousands of christians, persecuting people, because of their sin. That is wrong, and completely against the Bible. Jesus said(paraphrased): "Take the log out of your own eye, before pointing out the splinter in someone else's." Basically saying that... christians have just as much sin in their life as anyone. One little sin is no different then thousands of sins(theoretically, of course). The Bible teaches us to love those who hurt us, be kind to them that spite us, and show mercy to those that fall. Whether you are a thief, a homosexual, or a murderer, God says we are to show love, because Christ died for us, and we have committed sins against Him that we could never repay. I just want you to know that people who insult you and berate you, can't be going to church every Sunday and saying they are "holy workers of God" because that's just plain hypocrisy and basically an insult to God AND the Bible.

I doubt fireballs would rain down on a church that marries a gay couple, but God, Himself, destroyed two cities with fire because of their homosexuals, prostitutes, and many more. The reason you can't see God, is because he chooses not to(physically) show Himself. Does that mean He doesn't exist? Of course not. Can you physically SEE your brain? No? Then how can it be there? Just because something can't be seen, doesn't mean it isn't there. God has shown Himself many times through the years through grace and compassion, and in the case of America, prosperity. God said(again, paraphrasing) that those who defend his people[Israel] will prosper. America was one of very few who EVER helped Israel. Even today, Israel is being attacking and mocked, and berated, and America continues to defend them. America did not get where because of our Founding Fathers. America is where it is, because of God. That is one of very many ways, I can KNOW God exists.

The Bible never tells us everything, but it does tells us what God wants us to know. God calls homosexuality and "abomination." He does this, because people corrupted the perfect thing He created. Imagine you created an amazing game, and it was the most popular game in history, then someone makes a nock-off that completely berates and makes fun of your game, would you be happy? No, you would call IT an "abomination," and you wouldn't stand for it.

God didn't create homosexuality, or cancer, or any disease or manifestation of man. We did, because our hearts only desire what WE want. We are naturally born to think of ourselves first. Homosexuality has brought a lot of pain, not just to the ones who disagree with it, but also to homosexuala themselves. So, taking the Bible out of it... if something is so "natural" and so "beautiful," why has it caused so much pain and suffering?

 

Tbh I feel like people are taking this like the old times with blacks and whites. You don't choose to be gay or LGBT because if you could, no one would. It's basically asking to be frowned upon. I, personally completely support both. You don't realise its not a choice till you open your thoughts to it. I have friends that are like uncles and brothers to me, one actually my brother in law. He, his own mother, doesn't even know he's gay. This is an example that it's not a choice! Again, one of my moms friend is gay. He almost committed SUICIDE because he came out gay. Hell, even my hairstylist is gay. People need to stop being short-minded and open up that it's not a choice.

Ok, my rant is over

 

Before I start I would like to thank you for comparing a homosexual relationship to bestiality.

I used religion solely so people wouldn't get offended I missed our their religion, Christianity isn't the only religion in the world much like you all preach, can you talk to animals to understand they don't have feelings for the same gender of their animal equivalent? I don't think so.

No one said that homosexuality should be the normal, but it should not be denied the ability to marry in a church, that is so stupid and pathetic on so many levels that I cannot even comprehend a response to that, 'God' does not love us, if you knew anything you'd realize he has done naught but makes humans suffer, God created death, God created Satan. Everything wrong in the world is Gods fault. God made us with a conscience and the ability to make our own choices and choose right from wrong. He set laws for us, because he loved us, and didn't want us to get hurt or die. But, we chose wrongfully. Yes, THANK YOU! He created us with a choice, and we choose to be gay, thank you very much. You just proved my point.

So God is all great and peace loving but destroyed two cities full of innocent women and children because two males liked each other, Oh my God. How do people get sucked into this and not realize what they're saying is so stupid. Did you see it happen, have you personally seen God? Answer is no to all of them, so how do you know he is real, and what is written he actually wrote, you have no proof at all that he wrote it, for all you know some evil maniac who wanted to rule the world wrote it, you have ZERO proof God wrote it. America was not built by God, America caused wars and used power to reach its status, of course unless God supports murdering innocents, which he does as he fireballed two cities.

So now homosexuality is an abomination? Gee, and I just got over it being compared to bestiality. If someone took something I made, and had fun with it, that is a win in my book, they used what I created and mad entertainment, I am not selfish. I'd be thankful that someone used something I made, lmao.

God did create homosexuality, because he created humans. Simple.
I am generally so confused on this, I have no idea how people end up so brainwashed.

 

God did NOT create death, death came about because we decided to defy God. Death is simply the absence of the gift God gave us: LIFE. God did not CREATE Satan. He created Lucifer, a majestic angel above all others. No other angel compared to his beauty. BUT, as God created Him with a conscience and a CHOICE, he chose to defy God, because he "wanted more." Lucifer, became Satan, when he chose to defy God. Satan, the Devil, was not created by God, he was created by his own selfishness and desire to be above God.

Everything in the world WAS created by God, but the diseases, the hatred, the agony that this world suffers is completely, and totally, 100% the fault of man. God IS love. He is incapable of sin, and therefore incapable of creating something hurtful or negative.

I apologize for not being clear on the destruction of the two cities, but... it was because the entire city was being evil and corrupt. Not just two men, all the men, woman, and children were evil, vile people.

Of course I have not seen God, but I know He is real because what the Bible says has, not only come true in the past, but even in modern day times. Things like, The Temple being rebuilt in Jerusalem, a country to the East boasting over 200,000 troops(China), and just how the world would be more and more corrupt, not just with homosexuality. For example, some catholic countries have these "riots for Christ" where a person will be beaten AND crucified, because they think it will help them get to Heaven. THEY believe this is RIGHT. It's normal for them, it's ok.... so, tell me: is it ok for them to beat and murder these people "for Christ?"

Homosexuality is an abomination, because God said it was. Humans corrupted and perverted His perfect plan of human beings, to the point where it goes completely against everything we were originally created for. God did NOT create homosexuality. Just because you created something, and that thing creates something doesn't mean it's your responsibility. For example, if you train someone for many years on how to be an amazing hunter, this is someone you trust the most, and life is good; then three years later, they use those skills to kill innocent people, are you responsible for the death of those innocence? Should you be put in prison for the rest of your life, even though all you were trying to do was teach them how to hunt? Your friend, not even a stranger. <-- I have a backstory to this that I don't believe is appropriate to say here, so if you wish to know it, PM me. But, nonetheless, the message rings true, ARE you responsible for the horrible murder, and merciless slaughter of the people your FRIEND killed, all because you taught him the skills? The same is true with God. It's not His fault we decided to be foolish, and kill and rape, and murder, and commit homosexuality. it was OUR OWN choice. No one else's. We CHOSE to sin.

 

So the 2 year old kids were sinning before they could talk properly, seems legit. Who am I to question the mass-murderer.. I mean 'God'

 

Even a child is capable of unthinkable acts. But, thank-you for the mocking. I will no longer embarrass myself in this thread.

 

This is not a debating forum, please don't quote people on every post you see just because you disagree with it and make it into a debate.

This thread is simply for people to share their opinions.

I can't emphasis enough that don't be rude. I don't care if you believe in something and someone else doesn't or vise versa. Let someone have their point of view and if it can be considered disrespectful then don't right it.

I posted this thread to simply get a better understanding of both sides in a calm manner and its working nicely so far besides a few comments here and there.​

 

Thank you so much for talking about your point of view, don't be embarrassed to talk about your point of view, this thread was meant to be a friendly thread, If Zambiana or anyone anyone else makes you feel uncomfortable of speaking your mind tell me and I'll delete their post.
You don't have to explain your point of view to anyone who asks- only to the extent you wish to talk about.
But really thanks so much for your contributions their really fantastoc to read!​

 

Please note that I am by no means a religious man, but I have extensive experience with multiple religions, mainly with Mormonism, Christianity, and Catholicism. I am also in complete support of the discrete LGBTQ Community. Why do I say discrete? Because no one has to know about it. Note: I am not discussing gender, only the inherent attraction of one person towards another, e.g. homosexuality, bisexuality, asexuality, pansexuality, et cetera.

No one has to know your sexuality - I've barely heard of someone ever discussing how straight they are, or wearing clothes simply because they make them look straight. Yet members of the LGBTQ Community that want to ensure other people know that they are in fact a member will more often then not find a flamboyant way to define themselves as such. Yes, I know there are many more very respectable members of the Community that are not like this, and they are beautiful people that are logical and understand whats wrong with acting like this. Yet there are those whom are disrespectful to non-members - which is a form of hypocrisy since they are demanding respect from the government in terms of their wishes, when they aren't respecting the opinions of non-members.

I absolutely believe - at least in the United States, where every person is "created equal" (US Constitution) and every person has the same "unalienable rights" (US Constitution) such as state marriage - that a member of the LGBTQ Community has the same exact rights as someone who is straight. Someone who is homosexual absolutely has the rights to be legally married - that is, such that the Supreme Court of The United States recognizes two members of the same gender as married. I don't give a flying hoot if a church recognizes it since that has no relative impact on a couple's relationship. Being legally married has so many financial and legal benefits for a couple that it should be an absolute right for any couple.

Scientifically speaking, homosexuality, bisexuality, asexuality, et cetera are all completely natural developments of the human brain.

People of an evolutionary sexuality - meaning that its a sexuality that has been evolved into human behavior by static mutation (any sexuality that isn't heterosexuality), which is mutation that occurs after genial construction of the brain (birth) - are only like that because that is simply how their brain developed over time. Perhaps it is because of something that occurred in their life, but otherwise it is simply because of a mutation in how their braincells are developed.


As this is the scientific explanation of any non-heterosexual sexuality, it is deemed absolutely natural. In the eyes of someone who believes in the idea that a monotheistic God created the earth and the human race, if this persons logic is based directly off of what God represents in Christianity, they would deem a homosexual person, or a bisexual person, absolutely natural and shouldn't have a problem with their existence.

More on that: In the Christian Bible, "God is Love" (1 John 4:8). If God is love, and "Love is kind. ... it keeps no record of wrongs" (1 Corinthians 13:4-8a, God's definition of Love), and the goal of a Christian is to be more like their savior - who is a physical, human, representation of God - then perhaps the followers of God should commit to God's Love for all of his creations. This includes the people of a homosexuality that said follower might not agree with.

Lets also keep in mind how seriously Jesus takes into account the idea homosexuality. There are several different translations of a single line in Leviticus 18:22. The essential translation that can be derived from all of the translations are: "Don't have sex with another man." This is directed towards mankind, not womankind. Almost every lesson that Jesus teaches his followers and has written into the Bible has an anecdote associated with it. This one rule has no backing anecdote, it has no tone associated with it that would imply an absolute undeniable sin. And even if this is so, God is Love, therefore God keeps no record of wrongs, therefore God would forgive a follower of their sins and wrongdoings. If the followers of God were truly followers of him and his son, Jesus Christ, then they would follow him in his footsteps of forgiving those that they believe have sinned, no matter the sin.


Scientifically speaking, no one has a choice on being a certain sexuality. Non-heterosexuality is a scientific anomaly created by a singular or string of post-genial mutation, or several post-genial interactions.

I apologize for the length of this reply - I'm very passionate about equal rights, as well as how people interpret the religions they follow.

 

Who says that? Nothing is a universal right, since rights can be lost depending on behaviour. Criminals, pedophiles, rapists do not deserve the right to be married. And it's questionable whether intellectually disabled people should be allowed to either, for obvious reasons of capacity. So your statement isn't quite true.

To the bible though: Remember that for every verse that is quoted regarding God's love, there are also verses heaping God's curses on sinners who do not obey God's commandments (God even hated someone for no good reason other than him being born), so I guess you could use the bible to defend either position.

 

this went from asking for opinions to a full on religious war please stop the stupid religious war I think most of us know what each side wants, you don't need to fight over it.

 

I knew this would happen. This has turned into a gigantic argument about what's right/ wrong. It's just become hostile. Live and let live.

 

Anyone can (and should) get married.
What I'm saying is that people keep trying to press the church into it aswell, even though it's against our belief.

I knew well about your standing regarding this matter before I even began writing the text, Zamb.
But you have a tendicy of generalizing too much.
You assume all Christians are the same, the same way many see the Muslim terrorists.
I'm born and raised Christian. I've learnt to accept and reject anyone based on their actions, nothing else.
This applies both ingame and IRL. I'm not very fond of the idea of forcing anyone, though.
So the whole movement on forcing the church to let any others than male/female marriages happen isn't in my liking.
Maybe it's wrong, but it's also wrong to call religion the cause of all evil. Or put the blame on it.

We are humans.
Since ever, there has been violence on this planet. Since ever have we caused eachother harm and death because of our selfish needs. Religion is simply one way of explaining it.
Granted, there are horrible Christians (or religious people at all). But can you claim that there aren't any horrible people that are atheists?

Now, I'm not sure what it's like where you live (or how Australia is at all), regardless, I live in Sweden.
This is probably one of the most secularised countries in the world (or so, I've been told). The protestantic church is the dominating one here, and it's pretty much government controlled at this point. Homosexuals may get married, and it's generally well accepted here. We have quite big human's right movements here, and they are going stronger each year's election.
My point is, you shouldn't judge Christianity, considering your rant hasn't been very open minded.
Religion isn't the cause of all evil.
Religion isn't the reason people die or abuse others.
The cause of that is us.

Every action has a concequence.
Taking what CraftKing said, God gave us free will. That had a concequence.
The concequence is that we were free to do whatever we wanted, whether that be good or bad.

In reality, you can blame anything on religion, but in the end, we are the reason that happened.
Our choices.
Our actions.

 

Or can they merrr

 

We need to bring the BIBLE out of this. Seriously it's your thoughts, your religion, your actions. TO EACH IS OWN.

 

First things first, (i'm the realest), keep your religious beliefs to yourself, really. Religion isn't proven to be real, and most likely never will. So if you want to be religious, we came from fish. Theory of evolution, big bang theory, all that good shit.

Your opinions shouldn't really be influenced by your religion.
My opinion is that I don't really care if someone is gay. I don't support gay relationships or anything, but I don't claim to discriminate against it either.

And about the "coming out" thing, it's really not a big deal. Honestly, no one should care, and probably won't care. And if it upsets you that no one cares about you saying you are gay, then you are just attention whoring, and should probably keep your beliefs to yourself. It's not about attention, it's just to let people know. If someone doesn't accept you for being gay, you can always say you don't accept them for discriminating against gay people. If you need to be "brave" or something to 'come out', you are just a cliché and should keep your sexuality to yourself.

tl;dr version
i dont support gays, but i dont discriminate against them
if coming out is a big deal, keep your sexuality to yourself, no one cares, otherwise, just tell people.

Now move along.

 

Best thing I've heard all day

 

The United States does not remove the right of marriage from any criminal of any kind even after conviction. Marriage is an absolute right provided by the Constitution as per the Ninth Amendment: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

As such, the government provides marriage as a right to a man and a woman and therefore due to the absolute equality implied by the Bill of Rights (when implemented by the Constitution), the government MUST provide the same right to any couple of ANY sexual orientation - on the federal level. On the state level, however, states cannot deny rights that the Federal Constitution explicitly or implicitly provide, which just means that States cannot directly deny the right of legal marriage to a couple.

 

To some of those people that have to deal with their homophobic families its a really big deal - wouldn't you want your parents to meet the love of your life? What happens when it turns out to be someone of the same sex as you and they had no idea that you were homosexual or bisexual or pansexual. What happens when they're actually completely homophobic or they just hate people that aren't straight? This is why coming out is a huge deal to some people. However, I don't really think the internet is where someone should come out if they do end up doing so - unless they're just sharing their experiences with other people which might give them the confidence to tell their families the truth.

There is a short game called Coming Out Simulator 2014 made by one of the most profound flash-game creators of all time: Nicky Case. It'll provide you with a better point of view from the standpoint of someone who is bisexual and needs to come out to his homophobic parents.

You can find the game here (give it a go, you might enjoy it): Coming Out Simulator 2014 by ncase

 

No.