Is it possible to be banned without reason?

Honestly, I think yes.

I've long held that communities that implement a "vibe check" rule remain healthier communities for longer. There are people in pretty much every community that will simply brush up against the rules over and over again. Knowing they didn't cross the line of the current rule, but otherwise causing unnecessary headache for everyone else in the community. Giving admins the flexibility to ban people for any reason is pretty important in order to weed out players who might not be breaking specific rules, but have a toxic, negative, or even harmful impact on the community.

Also like...it's not our server and paying money doesn't entitle you to anything except whatever you paid for.

 

I agree with the situation you described but what if that ‘vibe’ is negatively impacted by wrongful banning of players and staff not acting in accordance with the terms to which we’ve all agreed to. Or in accordance with consumer law. Rights we are entitled to as a consumer of the service.

The balance just doesn’t feel right currently.

 

Just a question, but people have been bringing up the term consumer rights a lot recently and it seems like the term is being used as a bullet proof shield against being banned (just based on the appearance of things). I’d just like to question what consumer rights are being broken or which rights are being referred to in this scenario? Obviously not just you Drogo, but I am always wondering.

 

Definitely not a bulletproof shield, break the rules and you should be punished.
Any unwarranted ban though would be a refusal of service.
Consumers have a right to be heard and a right to be informed. We don’t get a great deal
of info ( although noobcrew just provided an update on the server update.) and as mentioned earlier, players have been banned with no avenue to appeal, ie to be heard, or if they do appeal they sometimes get no response, ie. not informed.

If we all do our bit, respecting server rules and players rights, everyone should be happy.

 

Do consumer rights apply to something that is free to access and voluntary choice? I'm not American so I know rights are different around the world. I'm just trying to gain an understanding of the term that keeps getting used.

Do you still get consumer rights if you agreed to terms of service that negate those rights? Think "No shirt, no shoes, no service" Is that against consumer rights if its specifically posted as terms and conditions? (again not you personally, just examples)

 

I don’t know about greenies. They do still use or consume the service. So possibly they have the same rights but consumer rights really only offer us what most people think would deem fair and reasonable. The don’t really offer anything special. I don’t think a business can overrule consumer rights.
“No shoes, no shirt, no service” rules don’t violate consumer rights. They are just standards or rules like our server rules.
All anyone wants is to be treated fairly and i don’t feel that’s been happening.
With regards to consumer rights around the world, I think they all seek to provide the same sort of protection. econsumer.gov is an international consumer protection partnership of agencies all around the world that work together with a common goal. The Federal Trade Commission in the US and the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission here in Australia are members. econsumer.gov provide an avenue to seek justice against companies, sellers, service providers, etc. in different countries to yourself.

 

So if you do not do this why update the Terms and Conditions of purchase?

 

Thanks for clarification, I appreciate the responses, I can only speak for myself in these matters, and I often see people misuse this term as a protection for doing something wrong. Quoting consumer rights to help understand bans, I understand, quoting consumer rights to find out some information about a server update is ridiculous. You don't have any right to know whats going on with server updates, you should have the right to know why you were banned and the opportunity to appeal (which in 99% of the cases seems to be met).

 

It's definitely not protection against doing anything wrong. It's there to protect consumers from service providers that do the wrong thing.
In the context of this server, we have rules set by the server we must to follow. The server has rules set by consumer laws they must follow. It ensures fairness for all.

Consumer laws do entitle us to be informed. With regards to the server update, once it's promised, it is expected. People might invest more time and money in the server if they think it's coming so they have a right to know if things change. Not daily updates, but major delays, things like that. And really it's beneficial for the server as well because players were starting to feel like they weren't being heard and they didn't matter, because they never got answers. Noobcrew has provide info on it now, so players are happier and thy can stop asking. win win.

Imagine your mobile phone service was rubbish, you might consider a new provider, but if they promise there are upgrades coming and you commit to another year contract, you would be upset if that upgrade never came.

Large companies get massive fines for failing to meet promises.

 

Consumer law protects the consumer on things they've purchased yes? You bought a rank it comes with kit. If they took away the rank or kit, consumer rights protects you, but just because you bought a rank, doesn't entitle you to be informed about other things. Your consumer rights cover the thing you purchased. You didn't purchase a server update.

Everything that seems to be going on recently is a few people raging against the machine, and i'm trying to understand the point of it all. I don't particularly want to derail this thread much further, so perhaps we could discord DM about it, if you wished to discuss it and help me understand more.

 

Consumer rights protect purchasers of services as well. I know we don't pay a monthly subscription but the money we put in, goes towards keeping the server running so its not to different. In fact ongoing payments for access to Minecraft servers is one of three main methods that the Minecraft EULA permits for generating income.

Obviously, we didn't purchase a server update and there was no obligation for Noobcrew to update the server. But once it was announced, people might make decisions based on that and that might be to buy a rank where they might not have if the server was not going to be updated.

I put this next passage in the server update thread and will put it here again as it is relevant.

"In 1962, then US President John F Kennedy declared four basic consumer rights – the right to safety; the right to be informed; the right to choose and the right to be heard."

 

There’s always a reason why you’re banned otherwise you wouldn’t be banned.

 

This has already been mentioned and it's not in dispute, but sometimes those reasons are not just, and even when they are, the banned player has a right to discuss it and this is not always given.

 

Well considering this is going to happen here, It doesn't matter where our money goes or what the company does with it, you got what you paid for. Deal done, rights cover the transaction and only that. You bought an apple, you ate an apple, you don't get rights to see where they spent that money or access to whatever they spent that money on... Transaction complete. You are not seeing that your right to be informed only relates to the product you purchased. They change the kit, you have a right to be informed. That right stops at the product you purchased.

Like you say we don't pay a monthly fee, so they have no obligation to inform, they do sometimes and its nice, but you need to remove rights from that conversation. Its what you want, not what you have the right to have. (Which by the way, it's fine to want)

 

There’s ban appeals for a reason, to appeal and discuss the ban. Every banned player is required to make one of these. There’s nothing to dispute.

 

Sorry but this is not correct you are not required to do anything. You are able to make a ban appeal but sometimes it is left empty or closed prematurely.

 

It was a figure of speech. If you want to be unbanned you have to make a ban appeal, it’s literally the format you have to fill out. I’ve dealt with bans for over 2 years I know how it works. Some people just choose to not appeal given it’s an obvious valid ban but most players appeal their bans.

Also appeals are never left empty or randomly closed? If it’s an old perm ban and the staff who banned you is no longer staff then a higher up will handle it. Ban appeals are always handled given from my experience anyways.

 

No one has really disputed this as said so really this is a derailment of the thread. Also congratulations to you for dealing with bans for 2 years.

 

I’m just trying to be as transparent as I can for you regarding the actual title of this thread so everything I’m saying matters. I thought I’d mention my experience so you’d take my word for it that’s all. Just trying to help but I saw crews reply so I’m just going to leave it there on my half.

 

Oh for sure - instances of wrongful bans should also be under the purview of the suggested "vibe check" rule. Overzealous bans can also be a toxic, negative impact on a community as well.

Regarding your repeated mention of consumer rights, I think they're useful to keep in mind, but I don't think they apply much here. Mostly because this server is selling ranks and kits, not updates or access, ya know? I do agree with a later comment of yours though; information about updates to the server will affect people's decision to get ranks, so I think they should be more forthcoming about information regarding updates. Rather than us having to constantly ask staff for information about those updates.

And I also agree the balance doesn't feel right at the moment, but I (largely) don't think bans are the big problem at the moment; just a lack of communication.