This is something I've been wanting to make for a long time now and I think something that actually should be addressed with legit suggestions as opposed to constantly just saying "It sucks". I decided to make this a separate thread even though there is a current thread where this information is being discussed, mostly because that one is a lot of rambling and spewing of opinions everywhere. This way, I can lay out ideas in a proper format and hopefully have normal discussions about it. But before I continue I wanted to preface this with a few things: This is NOT a place to hate on anyone whether they are staff or not. I do not condone nor support acts of hating on individuals this thread is ONLY for the purpose of suggestions on the application system itself and is not for targeting any individual or group. Attacking someone personally is not the same as criticizing processes and systems I do not believe my ideas are correct in everyway nor do I know the full ins and outs of how the entire thing works so don't take this thread as me acting like I have all the answers, I don't, these are just some ideas With that said, we'll move onto the main topic. I wanted to start out by saying thank you to all of the people that apply whether they get accepted or not. I know now from experience it's not always easy especially on your own health if you take it too seriously sometimes. This is one big problem I see with the entire process itself and can affect a lot of people including myself. The process of applications is taken VERY seriously and for many people that's a lot of extra stress for some people that already struggle with a lot of other things in their own life. I can say personally and from other people I've talked to, applying for such a long time and taking it seriously for that long without even getting some feedback takes a toll on your health. I can say from experience, where there is times that I personally felt that just being on this server and trying to apply for a staff position affected me outside the game and in some cases turned a good day bad quickly. Now, this is a case to case situation, some people do not take any of it that seriously at all or let these kind of things get to them, but for others there is a certain mental drainage that comes with something like this that not everyone can handle. This is still just a video game after all and I think a lot of people forget that. Having a position in any situation whether it be real life or a server like this comes with times of seriousness, but to me this whole thing seems more like a stressful job application that has one of the lowest acceptance rates with extremely high standards for something that is in the end, just a game. Now putting aside the emotional aspect that comes with applying, I wanted to actually get into some real suggestions I think would help not only make people feel much happier when trying to apply, as well as making the process (what we know of it) actually feel like a better system. These are some ideas I've thought of: It is very clear that it is known even within weeks whether an applicant is chosen or not and so I believe there needs to be a schedule where the applicant is told after a certain length of time whether or not they are currently being considered. I would say every 1-2 months the applicants are told by staff whether they are currently being considered. This message should also include a list of areas that need improvement. If they aren't the message could be as followed, "You are not currently being considered for a staff position at this time for the server. These are the current issues we have with you at the moment and could be improved on: (list them here). Feel free to improve on those and we can update you another time or withdraw and try applying again after 1-3 months." If they ARE being considered it could be this: "You are currently being considered to be a staff member, there are a few things to improve on such as : (list here), but overall you are doing a great job, we will let you know soon if we decide to choose you." Most people agree that they would rather be told a hard no than never being told after 6-12+ months of applying Weekly updates from Moderators on applications. Most people seem to forget that currently only SMods and up actually deal with input on the promotions and anyone below that only makes suggestions rather than having a full say on it. Regardless of that, many applicants would at least appreciate feedback from mods even if they don't actually decide. It's good to have opinions from people on the team it lets people know that the staff pay attention and actually notice how you improve. Make Helper a Trial Position. I've put this one in bold because it's one thing I feel very strongly about. Previously when being promoted the rank "Trial Moderator" was the first rank you'd be promoted to. This was a trial position that was given to people to try out being a staff member, and if the team decided they weren't doing their job properly then they were demoted from that position. Now, certain people at the time had control of that process which made it not always the best decisions, but regardless the process of having a trial position I think should still be applied. The intent of the trial position is to allow more applicants to be given a chance more often. I would suggest every 2-3 months, potentially the same times as the first suggestion with the feedback, pick a current applicant and give them a chance at the Helper position for a month and after that evaluate if they can keep going or not. Activity on all platforms shouldn't matter, and the selection process should be based on actual qualifications for the job. I notice a lot of the time there are so many applicants that have special skills that would significantly benefit the team but get entirely overlooked. Many people who apply have very good skills specifically for example with redstone or coding or plugins or just general game knowledge but get overlooked due to not necessarily being the nicest person to everyone all the time. While teamwork is important and being able to work with others is a good trait to have, it shouldn't be the entire basis for picking people which is what it seems to be. The other part to that is activity on every platforms should not be a requirement. I always see comments that "so and so should be active on discord or economy etc." this should not be a factor in deciding staff. If you have certain people really good at certain aspects of the server that should be considered. Having multiple staff with special qualities would be a significant help The application itself should have a greater impact on picking staff members. From what I understand the application itself and the support from players has a small impact in comparison to the actual player behaviour and activity. If a player has 30, 40, 50, 60+ supports with very little no supports or neutral and people backing them up for months, it's very clear the majority of the people think they would be a good fit for the team. There's a difference between 5-10 friends making you look good and continuous support from 50+ players for months. It basically seems that the application is pointless entirely and it might as well be all made in a DM to the staff manager. I think the support from the majority of the players should have a greater impact This is one someone brought up I think it's actually a good idea: not allowing neutral and no support ratings on application, only allow support ratings otherwise comment your opinion. Forcing only support as a rating options means many of the people who just rate with no response have to actually give feedback in order for the applicant to see that they are going with neutral or no support. The whole point of replying to apps is to get feedback from other people and it's more important to have feedback from the people who don't like or disagree with you than the people who do like and agree with you, it allows for more learning and growth. These are just a few suggestions I've thought of, please feel free to critique anything I say as well as give your own ideas. I will add any ideas if I think of anything else as well : ) Remember this is just a discussion not a place to pick sides or get heated at other people
Not only do I fully agree with this entire thread but I think it should seriously be considered. Even though I know it won't good work on this Calidre. Also, when I saw this all I thought was, "Too many words good gosh way too many words. Thankfully, KingJonSnow came to my rescue and read the entire thing to me. God bless you sir. Proud of you!
This thread has a lot of very detailed and excellent ideas which I believe should definitely be taken into consideration. This. This. And this. It is so important to inform applicants about what they're missing and what they might be doing wrong. Without getting the proper feedback and input, they don't know what to improve on which confuses them and can mentally drain them. Putting in too much dedication or over-helping isn't always a good thing, it shows that a Minecraft game is your priority and I too used to do this, which is one of the reasons I resigned. I put in too much dedication which basically made me prioritize Skyblock over other things and I decided to quit to start new things, and I kinda did lol. Now I was a moderator and did put in too much dedication, which is what I see in applicants from time to time. Having spent hours in-game trying to their best without feedback can just make them lose hope even though they're doing everything right, or so they think. I love this idea and the best part would be for each week to have a new moderator's POV to get new insights and views from each of the staff team, potentially an applicant's colleagues. It's better to know from the people you may work with on what to improve on, to provide and have more clarity and build a collaborative relationship. I feel like trial moderators would be much better than helpers because this way, it builds an extra safety parameter. I definitely agree with this and having trial mods move to helper with essentially permanent trial mod permissions would help these trial mods to better understand permissions etc. It would also allow more people on the team, which is never a bad thing, and would allow for some new faces, new POVs, and would allow for new ideas from potential creative minds. This is very much a good idea though I feel like activity should have a very minor play in choosing potential staff. Being based on your qualifications > being judged on activity. 100% agree. I made this point on Caleb's thread and I think a few other people did too and taking support statuses of an applicant should definitely be considered when choosing applicants. Every point made in this thread is very much agreeable and I just wanted to give my opinion on almost all the points!!
(I have never applied for staff, so please consider that when reading my opinion) I agree with Calidre, watching his own application process from the start to where it ended. I completely understand the toll this can take on someone. Not hearing anything for 3+months isn't great but over a year is just disheartening (even for the people supporting applicants), You want staff to be passionate, but by the lack of feedback across are large amount of time, people lose their passion for helping. I think at the very minimum every applicant should be made aware of staff thoughts by the 2 month mark of an application, that's not a lot to ask for. Like Cal has said, a simple, work on this, focus on that... shows that you are taking this entire process seriously. The way applications go now (and this is one mans opinion, not an attack) It gives the appearance of a popularity contest rather than a merit and community support process. Whether that is the truth or not, it's the way we all start to see it. When applicants who are heavily supported by an entire community get zero feedback, not only the applicant, but the community start to question your processes. This should be a supportive process not a judging process. Good work Cal, it needs to be addressed!
I basically completely agree with Calidre on most points here. Considering this is a separate space, but similar topic I wanna echo some thoughts I posted in the other thread. Basically I think it would be nice to see an intentional effort from mods to reach out to moderator applicants more than we see currently. Whether it just becomes part of mod duties for everyone or whether we just assign a few existing staff to be liaisons for those applying, I think increased communication and intentional observations would help both the server and the players through the application process - I think we'd end up with faster denials (weeding out less than ideal candidates) and also more structured improvement for the players who do have the right stuff. I realize that the staff team is comprised of unpaid humans who have other obligations in life, but I think small actions can really go a long way in making the application process better - because it sucks to see longtime players get demoralized over something as simple as wanting to help the server they play on.
thank you all for the support on this so far I'm hoping for some actual staff feedback on this, this thread is meant to hopefully start an actual discussion about this topic rather than being pushed to the bottom of the lists and left ignored like many things in the past
The Helper position is currently not being used as the "trial" position it was intended for. As of now it's just a month of having a blue name before it's red. Little to no input is left on existing applications which makes it next to impossible to know what they're looking for.
I agree with all the things cal said. Don’t need to add anything just wanna let my position be known.
Okay, what a mouthful to read, but a good list of points to create. I whole heartedly agree with this Calidre on these suggestions. If the recruiting is going to be handled so seriously, why not use examples from the real world to better improve the process. When applying for jobs, you (generally) get a straight answer back within a reasonable time that states if you got the job or not, while some companies don't that, it tends to be because they are processing thousands of applications, which is not applicable here. It gives that person closure, even if unsatisfied with the result, it is nice to know for your own sake. You also, will more than likely be placed on probation, essentially a trial period to see if you are a fit, most people that are worthy of the job end up suiting the role and staying, after a set period a couple may not be kept on the team. This gives the opportunity to essentially say while you haven't broken any of our terms as staff, you don't particularly perform your role well, aren't active, or for whatever reason. This is a nicer way to allow the team to search for a better fit rather than having a staff member that they feel bad about demoting, because they may not have done anything wrong ultimately. This could be say 3 months as a trial mod, after which you simply just don't feel the player is bringing anything of value to the server as staff, so you decide to not keep him on, rather than the harsh concept of demoting/firing. TLDR, Hopefully most of the points for recruiting are considered seriously and not brushed over, I think the server would benefit greatly from a reform of the application process and this thread raises some great points to take on.
That's the problem it's not a "trial position" anymore and it needs to be :/ Replying again hoping for some actual feedback from staff still : )
Cal just wrote more than I did on my essay for my english class and yet not a single staff member has shown a sign of acknowledgment. Lol
Staff haven’t ignored this thread and we won’t ignore this thread. Bare with us as we digest everything that’s been mentioned. Thanks for the thread, it’s definitely interesting to read.
I agree with all the ideas in this but especially the idea of switching helper to trial mod. Making it a position thats not assumed to automatically be long term will allow for more people to get a shot at being staff and show whether they really would be a good mod or if they still need to improve. Hopefully they at least start giving updates on applications to give applicants peace of mind.
I will say that in my experience, trial mods / helpers have rarely ever appeared to be anything less than essentially "mod, but with slightly less powers". Like it was pretty rare that anyone who was a tmod didn't become a mod. I'm also not 100% sold on the idea that taking on more trial mods is actually feasible - it could demand a lot more direct oversight from staff, who might already be dealing with other things or are otherwise stretched kinda thin. But with that said, I still stand by my last post and like 95% of the points brought up here. I think stuff does need to change in the application process and I would love to see more public feedback from existing mods regarding mod applications so that candidates can get a lot of the ideas of what things will be demanded of them earlier on.
Honestly what shocks me is that I check the discussions page after such a long time just to see the same issues going on as when I was active on here. It's been a year since these concerns have been brought up but I barely see any change, and it's disappointing. Not only was this thread ignored so far, but other concerns from the past were too. Everyone was promised change, so where is it? - I especially do agree with making Helper a trial position. Problems in regards to staff applications began around when Helper was introduced, and I think staff are a bit worried about promoting an applicant that might not do a good job. That's understandable, but this is exactly why I support making Helper a trial rank again. As much as we'd like to deny it, every person promoted will still expect a promotion to Mod sooner or later, there's no doubt about that.. so why not just make it official? This way, if you promote an applicant who hasn't at all proven themselves (for example inactivity), there are options like demoting them just like how it was in the past. I understand the team is smaller than before now, however I feel that these worries that the team may have are jeopardizing the server and its reputation, as well as wasting the time of applicants who actually deserve a chance or a trial.
I think I will be the one to bump this even if it's been more than a month as this as we need an Application Revolution, something needy as we want the mob arena returned and other major updates we are waiting on. I'm sure many of us know or not know this that a staff response which is acceptance is rare for staff applicants that it might be based on the background and history checks on the applicant that could be investigated by the upper league of the staff team whether if they see the applicant is trustworthy as in won't mess up as a staff member and have to be "perfect" for the helper position. as I begin to start off on why we need the Trainee/Tmod System to come back. (I know this is a joke made by Agent but it shows many of us do. I have been on a few servers played on years ago that offered the Trial Mod/Trainee role as it means to be trained months before being promoted to Full Moderator. their applications have been private I've seen and they are looked at whether invited to a interview with an administrator/manager for consideration or denied as this means there would be less stress than just running for the role many months without being told or on what to improve on like what Calidre said. (I think the system has been going on since 2012-2013?) No such thing that is perfect as it's impossible to make it or be perfect 100%, some old players who used to apply sadly have quit long time ago as a bit of them were angry after waiting for so long as they were doing the right things that helped the server as they were qualified said by the majority of the community who supports for the position but their background might of been like a stop sign and giving another candidate helper as their application wait was way shorter which gave the other staff applicants demonetization which didn't seem right at the end. I'd say applications could be read more to confirm honesty to see if its true in-game, forums, and in the discord. adding a system which as an option to deny applications from upper staff as not having the option to deny applications which don't make those kind of applications real applications at all. A trainee system to gain more knowledge so that the chances will be low on screwing things up. Removing the part on how active can you be every day in the application templates which means if you are available to get in contact or come on for situations. (But being far inactive is a no no.) This is not meant to be a hateful or negative comment from myself. Thanks to Ca1 and Calidre on your thoughtful words.
