It's like 5-10x lower than it was before the reboot. Would have been nice to get a heads up because I just bought 100m+ of obsidian and built gold farms. Now it's just a massive blob of dead island space which is practically impossible to mine.

 

They saw that we were gonna have fun and stopped it.

 

they are shutting down all creativity and leaving us with crop hopper farms for income and not adding anything new to counter all the nerfs making the server more of a cookie cutter and one path to make money

 

I wish the staff would at least consult eco players before making huge changes like this. It's literally the bare minimum respect that staff can give their players. I've also invested probably around 100m into my gold farms, and at the current rates I make it would take ~120 days to repay that.

First of all, this is an economy server. If you keep reducing the value of items to the point that we need to keep breaking the economy, you're not running your economy server in a sustainable way. If the current trajectory continues where every profitable item gets nerfed and no items are given an increased value, eventually the shop as an income source will mean nothing and the entire economy will be a boring AFK fest where only the people who put in years of time are the ones with any money. Give it two years and the server will dry up as the old and disappointed players quit because they can't hope to fund their big goals and they don't think its worth it to continue investing their time and energy into a dying server.

I agree that gold was a bit OP at its previous price, but the anti-fun method of nerfing a price to worthlessness is not a good idea. Had staff asked us what the price should be I'd have told them what I make and what the investment to get that rate was, and we could at least discuss a new level to make it a bit less broken. But they didn't, and now a lot of us are upset because of a simple lack of communication. And before anyone argues "we should've told staff about how much $ we were making", since I've joined I've never seen that strategy yield good results. If staff actually care they would be the ones to start the discussion because they want us to have a good time.

Fact is, if staff opened up the discussion on what items should be valuable in /shop we would be in a much better place than we are right now. I think the nerf should be reconsidered to some other value to be more reasonable for the investment cost. Especially since the farms themselves aren't very laggy like mossy cobble was.

Sidenote:
I was trying to do a weird form of "trickle down" by paying new players to harvest ores for me, but now that gold is practically useless I can no longer fund that project which is a huge bummer. It was working too, and I know a lot of new greenies who were benefitting from it, but because I need to horde my cash now I can't be as industrious and I need to be more selfish in order to have my own fun.

 

I hope you didn't take it like that. We know you can't make that decision.

But thank you for sharing it with Crew. I'm totally down to talk numbers and logistics with them if they've got the time. I'd also like to talk about other stuff related to economy if they're down since I think I'm a pretty good thermometer for the current state of economy.

 

I think the main issue was the above mentioned portal farms that were being used to generate copious amounts of gold.
They cause lag and bypass the mobcap while affecting everyone else's mob cab.

I considered building one for a long time but didn't because I knew they would eventually kill the server if too many people built them. The YouTube video I watched on it gave repeated warning that they are not good for servers.
I'd put it in the "common sense tells me I shouldn't do this" bucket.

The price nerf has hit a lot of players. I have a lot of gold stocked from mining which has now dropped in value, and copper has also dropped in value. I really only plan to build with that so not much of a concern for me, but I guess many other players who mine for ores will not like the price drop.
I'd love to see some move towards enabling players to share the wealth through profit shops and more shops at /warp shop.

 

Maybe that's the reason for gold price dropping. Reflecting its real time value. If someone has a farm that could potentially be earning them about 10 million every single day then that's a good reason for the farm produce to lower in value. Just how items that aren't sold often usually sell for higher values.

 

If it takes you 120 days to recoup your 100 million at the new rate, then at the old rate you would have already recouped it after about 19 days and since then, you would have been making 5.25 million per day tax free from the portal farm alone.
That's a much smaller investment for a much larger tax free income than is possible from any cropper farm.

I would say that they reduced the value of gold, BECAUSE you were breaking the economy.
I would have actually preferred to see portal farms made illegal and the prices left as they were.
Assuming common sense doesn't dictate that they were illegal in the first place at the scale you built to.

From what I've seen on the net, they are laggy, and 100 million would make over 1200 full sized 23x23 portals!
And there’s the issue that they bypass the mob cap. Anything that bypasses a deliberate limitation, can’t be considered as ok. Especially given once these pigmen spawn without restriction, they then contribute to the mob cap which affects everyone else by unfairly restricting their mob spawns.

It will only affect TPS if they actually stop running them. Even at the new price, portal farms of that size would still be making over $830,000 per day, so it's still a good investment.
Given dynamic pricing has knocked the price of gold down a further 6.67% it appears it's still being sold in large quantities.

Sadly, copper has been nerfed as well and those that rely on mining ores for income have been hit now.

 

Maybe /shop could reflect a "real time" market? If a player sells multiple ingots, then sell price diminishes.
Maybe a daily cooldown after selling [x] amount to shop at a fair price?
Maybe if its possible, to limit portal entry based on how many zombie piglins are on the island already? Instead of just mob count.
Maybe slightly increase the gold ore chance on /gen? The people who were mining ores are more effected by this change than the ones actually doing portal farms. (imo) And cobblestone generators are well, one of the first things nearly every player builds.
^maybe this doesn't matter though

I can see how the portal farms mess with TPS and obviously the income was a bit, well, too good? Hah.
Yes a heads-up would've been nice for the people who did spend 100m+ on the farms, its a bit unfortunate.
Does make me wonder though if it was so good, maybe the nerf could've been foreseen?

Yeah I think more creative ways on making cashflow would be nice, breaking the economy obviously ends up in a nerf so. Some daily or weekly warp events would be cool, like a challenge for money or a new crop hopper. lvl 4+?
Maybe new crop hoppers that reward other items instead of (or along with) money for afking. Different style of crop hoppers too, rewards ingots? IronHopper? Heck last minute thoughts.

Maybe different Crop Hopper farms could be a nice edition. For ingots, emeralds? diamonds? fish? Fish Hopper above body of water for fish? any other items?
Server is already based off a hopper system, why not add more to it? Idk

Wishing everyone wonderful day, these are just random thoughts

 

At the very least portal farms should be earning a decent chunk more than mining at a stone gen. It costs far more in investment and doesn't use extensive piston + fluid events, which lag the server more than gold farms ever did.

 

Yeah you're not wrong. It was and is a large investment, should be worth it at least, to make the investment back. Cobble gens are pretty cheap to make compared to that.
Not quite sure what creates more lag, maybe you're right, fairly certain they both aren't healthy for the server anyway.

server needs bit more attention, maybe when there's a new dev, the update wasn't even in a changelog (as far as i'm aware), im sure if it there was a /shop on /skyblock then maybe it would be acknowledged more? idk

 

I used to have my gold portal farms running before pigmen stacked and it was pretty op at the start. But with anything good, people go over the top and changes are made to keep server running balanced. Am I sad the portal farm stopped working. Sure. I could easily rebuild it. Instead it's time to focus on a new project. Perhaps investing so much into a farm without expecting any variable changes wasn't the best plan.

 

1. The amount of lag caused by the mobs themselves is relatively minor compared to the lag caused by other sources like literally just having 80 players actively loading chunks. TPS didn't change much at all after the change despite more than 4 people having large scale farms like this. Plus, we can't really dismantle our farms so now we're stuck with the decision to keep the farm "active" (not using it as much but its still spawning mobs).
2. While its true they bypass the mobcap because the spawn mechanics ignore the mobcap and are just based on the # of portals, it does not appear to be negatively impacting other people's hostile mobcaps in a noticeable way. Hostile mob spawns appear to be moreso limited bc of how many players there are and the lack of stacking that comes with having hostile mobs spawned away from each other on 80 people's islands than because of a couple people having ~2x productive mob farms.

The investment required to make one is far greater than most can afford, so its not a "mossy cobble red-alert" situation where the investment cost is sub 5m and the only challenge is building it. Many active players knew of the farms but couldn't do anything bc of the funds required to get started.

This would be true if mob stacking wasn't enabled. But stacking is enabled so this isn't really a big issue. We've seen that without these farms the TPS hasn't changed much at all.

Gold blocks have always been relatively low value and will always be relatively low value. These farms are just easier than the nether farms, but those are still totally possible even below the nether ceiling. That's kinda your fault for smelting your gold since you should know that the raw gold is naturally less abundant than the smelted kind, and it was already not worth it to sell gold from mining. I don't really have any opinions on the copper drop but I don't really think it was necessary since mining isn't and has never been OP, but I guess it discourages people from building laggier stone gens so its whatever.

Honestly I totally agree with this. I think that /warp shop is nice because it can't be automated without breaking rules. It would be nice to have some great special deals at /warp shop that make it worthwhile to sell manually without being easy to scale-exploit. Or maybe for the items you can scale-exploit, having sell limits via NPC shops to prevent needing to make the biggest fastest farms. On my server this worked great.

Also what Quoken said about daily cooldowns on items is a great start. I think the creativity there is really good, and that we need more brainstorming like that. I've always had the gripe that we should not be able to sell infinite items to shop, we should have limits because if we don't have limits we get exploitation. Income from /shop should be less about volume of items sold and more about diversity of items sold, that's just arguably a more fun mechanic for an economy server. People who disagree are often the laziest players who don't want to see a hit to their highly optimized and productive income stream.



Overall I'm not really against a nerf on gold prices. It was bound to happen. I'm just saying it shouldn't have been nerfed as low as it is, and that the cost of investment and the lack of lag makes it an ideal late game farm.

People assume that these farms are laggy because they're big, but the biggest lag comes from unstacked mobs which is easy to limit by forcing the mobs to slow down and stack before being collected. It is also encouraged to get them to the collection area (and stacked) as fast as possible since they despawn quickly if they're not inside of the anti-despawn radius in a short amount of time.

If people really care about reducing lag we should redo the current cropper system and potentially reinstate a 1 account limit. If you invested money into buying an alt account that's no different than me investing in an expensive farm.

 

Fair, I'm not gonna argue about the whole "tax free thing" since that's just how shop works and you're just thinking in weird cropper logic. Idk why taxes even need to exist on a mc server. I also agree that the $ I made is outrageously high even for the investment. I'd say that 1/2x or 1/3x the pre-nerf value would be a fair nerf, 1/10x is a bit over the top. At least have it match the days to ROI for a melkin farm so its like the next step in the late game process.

I'm not breaking the economy, the economy was always broken because this was always possible and is encouraged to increase profits. I didn't lag the server and I made good money because the server paid me good money for my gold. I'm good at pointing out vulnerabilities in the economy and bringing them to light. I'd like to help the economy be more robust to this kind of thing too, but there needs to be more well considered and debated changes to eco before things get better. The whole conservative argument is just favoring the people who benefit from afking and don't even play the game.

Portals themselves are client side rendered, the game isn't really getting lagged bc they exist, your client is getting lagged bc its animating lots and lots of purple spinnys and particles. I actually turn portal rendering off for this reason. They don't bypass the mobcap, they bypass the spawning mechanics. That's just how Minecraft works. As I said earlier too I haven't seen any issues with natural hostile mob spawning being considerably worse, so from what I can see this is not fully accurate. Of course having more mobs contributes to some more lag, but there are a lot of players loading a lot of chunks with a lot of mobs, so I'm not convinced that pigmen farms are the biggest threat.

Idk why people think dynamic pricing is even a solution. If you really want this stuff to change, make a sell limit for a fair price so its not encouraged to build bigger crazier farms. Also, 120 days ROI is not a good investment. When it was a 19 day ROI it was, but now its a bad investment.

Idk why they even nerfed copper lmfao, do they just expect us to AFK cropper farms only? If the value of money is gonna increase to accommodate for the lack of new money entering the economy anyways I don't see why I'd stop.

 

It's not the pigzombies that are an issue as they get killed off fairly quickly, it's the fact that every 1x1 portal frame checks every tick whether or not it spawns a pigzombie. If you've spent 100 million on obsidian then that builds about 2000 23x23 portals, 21x21 being the actual number of individual portals.
So that's 2000 x 21 x 21 = 882,000 checks every single tick that your portal farm alone is causing the server to run!

No one can say how much it affects other players but portal farms do bypass a deliberate limitation on a massive scale which itself is questionable as to whether or not it's considered to be ok.

The investment is far less than cropper farms and until the nerf, had a far greater return.
You spent 100 million and at the old price would have earned that back after just 19 days.
My full wheat farm cost me about 250 million and would have taken me about 127 days to earn back!

And then there is the effort required to build the portal farm which is a tiny fraction of that required to build a cropper farm.

Many many players build cropper farms. If they knew how much easier it was to build a portal farm and how much more profitable they were, then they would have built them instead. Unless like me, they considered them a bit too good to be true and likely illegal under the common sense rule.

Gold value was what it was, but now it's a fraction of that sadly. Hopefully it can be reverted eventually because I don't think that was the best solution. A limit on portals added to the rules would have been a far better solution.
In dealing with things like this they should deal with the cause, otherwise everyone suffers as a result.

I really don't think it was bound to happen. It was a direct result of the portal farms. Hopefully it is just a quick stop fix until portals can be restricted.
Which honestly, I think needs to happen anyway because they do cause lag, they do bypass game restrictions and the do still make decent money. I estimate, you will still be making aver $800,000 per day from it, which is still a very good secondary income.

Once again, it's not the mobs that are the issue.

People do care about the lag but the cropper system is out of the players hands.
Given players have paid for ranks on more than one account, I don't see how the 1 account limit can ever be put in place.
Buying an alt account and ranks for that account with real money is very very different to your investiment of virtual skybucks.

 

According to your post of just minutes ago "Gold blocks have always been relatively low value"

How did you bring this to light? You built it and profited largely from it.

Not correct.

According to your post of just minutes ago "While its true they bypass the mobcap because the spawn mechanics ignore the mobcap"

Wheat farms have approximately a 127 day ROI and I'm profiting pretty well from mine now. If it weren't for the issues with portal farms, I'd make that investment as well.
It would certainly be a better investment that 10 Mooshroom spawners that would also cost 100 million but has an even longer ROI.

 

Not correct.

 

The image is not correct, but my statement of "Not correct" is.
It might not be carrying out as many checks as that image suggests, but the server is calculating that chance of pig zombies spawning so to say " the game isn't really getting lagged bc they exist" is not correct.