/warp casino discussion thread

Discussion in 'Discussions Archive' started by Krissy, Aug 9, 2021.

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  1. Dexuby
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    Dexuby Active Member

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    Yeah I think being against the warp is completely fine even if Mojang doesn't care. Feel free to open a suggestion thread, might be a good idea to add some info regarding gambling and its risks like Emerald said but then again the purpose of this warp is just to preview that it exists and how it works.
     
  2. Emerald
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    Emerald Senior Member

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    Although it was meant for a preview, I have already seen a few casinos that were built from the warp’s example advertising items they did not own. If a player was asking in chat how to build a casino, the chat would now redirect them to /warp casino which is making it into more of a tutorial than a preview. One of my main concerns was more instances of scams now, and the main fact of these new players not knowing how to operate a casino, what to stock with, how to change odds, how to take your profit out, etc. Ill follow your idea and open a suggestions thread for the warp, and see what the community has to suggest for additions or removals from the warp while including some of my own suggestions.
     
  3. KhalDrogo
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    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

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    Not only explaining the risks but the odds as well.
    Such as, Paying grass for a 1/9 change to win a diamond means that on average, you will pay 9 grass for one diamond that is only worth 3 grass. A loss of 6 grass.
    If the casino has a sign saying “500 diamonds won”. Then that means 3000 grass (500 x 6) was lost.
    Do some simple maths and you’ll probably just walk away.

    And of course there is this. I can see moderators being called on a lot more to deal with casino related issues.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2022
  4. Xstevey
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    Xstevey Active Member

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    I might've (I probably did,) misunderstood what you're saying here. 500 diamonds won doesn't necessarily mean that 3k grass was lost right? Or are you saying if the diamond only dropped every 8 losses?

    Tl;dr : Steve confused as always. Would appreciate explanation.
     
  5. Boarder
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    Boarder Active Member

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    He just stated that when a casino advertises with a certain number of items that were paid out you can calculate how much grass the customer of the casino lost (if you know the odds/prizes).
     
  6. Xstevey
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    Xstevey Active Member

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    The customer isn't the one whose always in the loss right? If the customer gets "lucky" they could get like a lot of profit.
     
  7. Boarder
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    Boarder Active Member

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    Yes, but maths show you how often you are lucky, which in most casinos isnt often.
     
  8. Xstevey
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    Xstevey Active Member

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    Oh I get it know, drogo was calculating the probability if it was always an exact 1/9 chance. :hilarious::headbang:
     
  9. KhalDrogo
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    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

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    Casinos are designed to make profit for the operators. Customers will lose more than they win. If you use casinos often, you will end up paying more than you would if you just bought the stuff.
    And if you get “lucky” you will probably end up giving it all back by going again.

    Anyway, we've gone off topic a bit by talking about casinos in general rather than the warp itself.
    For me. I'm happy if it stays, as I believe it may lead to more trouble with failing and unfair casinos meaning more work for the mods and maybe casinos will be removed from the server totally.
    However, I believe they also result in more money being spent at the web shop so maybe they won't.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2022
  10. Kuriboh_kun
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    Kuriboh_kun Active Member

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    I strongly disagree with the way /warp casino was implemented, as it is oversimplified.

    It gives new players tools to negatively affect other players, the economy, and themselves, without even teaching them how to run a casino.

    I see some staff members mention how it's just an example, but that's the main problem. By only providing the redstone, the warp is failing to teach the other facets of running a casino and jumping to the last thing it should teach. Before this step, prizes and probabilities must be considered carefully in order to ensure the casino owner does not sabotage themselves, while also being fair enough for their players.

    This warp could be a great thing for the community by making the casino market more accessible. However, due to casinos that will and have already been copied from the warp, the reputation of all casinos on the servers has been tarnished.

    In my personal opinion, this warp will continue hurting the casino market until it fulfils the role it should have been filling, a teaching resource. It should give a guide on chestshop mechanics, randomizers, expected value, fluctuation. This should be the bare minimum. These is so much information that could be added to incentivise creativity, ingenuity, and fluidity.

    To finish, I think this warp should be done with help from people that are actually experienced in casinos and teaching about them. The current lack of information shows a lot of inexperience in the latter, and without any will to offend, no one currently in the staff team is a big player in the current casino scene.

    Also, some players have been using this thread as a way to discuss casinos in general, I remind them that the focus is /warp casino. Casinos are a vanilla feature and I'm pretty sure minecraft developers are aware of them, there's no point of comparison between casinos and lag machines (abuses unintended features) or flying machines (breaks the way skyblock organizes the world map). That way of interpreting the EULA is simply incorrect and drastic. I'm pretty sure this talks about real life currency gambling or promoting real life gambling, not redstone casinos as there are no precedents of this being enforced in any way. Generally, yes, the owner will win in the long run, but I don't knows any other way casinos would make sense. I think I have seen several posts about this that went nowhere so please stay on topic going forward.
     
  11. KhalDrogo
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    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

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    I will say this about the warp and gambling in general. We all know the EULA explicitly states there should be no gambling in the Minecraft game and so the warp and casinos should not exist on any Minecraft server. It seems that this is considered to be ok because “everyone else does it” and it’s not enforced.
    The last time I heard reasoning like that, I was talking to an 8 year old. I’m not trying to be disrespectful, that is just a fact.
    Should players be taking this attitude towards server rules? Would you accept that as an excuse for players breaking your rules?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2022
  12. boba
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    boba modern manifesto Premium

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    a lot of good points have been made on this thread and i definitely agree that gambling should be discouraged, and having a warp to show how casinos are built encourages gambling and i also agree that crates are a form of gambling (#drogoisagirlboss). however, if staff decide to eliminate gambling right now, it would cause collateral damage:
    • players who have put their energy into designing casinos and expanding the collection would essentially lose all their work and effort on skyblock.
    • players who's main source of income is through casinos would lose their money and would have to find another way to steady their income.
    • if crates are removed, many of the prizes that were obtained only from it (i.e zombie heads) would be unobtainable (ig a good thing since its value would go up), however it would also mean loss of money for crew, as well as a loss for people who made money from selling crate keys.
    • if crates are also removed, it would cause some issues with voting such as, what would be compensated for voters instead of voter keys?
    these seem like minor issues but when you put it all together, it can cause some chaos. however i still agree that forms of gambling should be looked into being removed because doing so bad some good to it.
    • you’re not violating minecraft’s EULA (which is like, really good)
    • you’re not promoting gambling, and causing addiction issues
      • keep in mind that even though this is just a game, it can cause a negative impact on kids who play it. these are real lives and real people.
    • you won’t get any complains #LOL
    i feel like there should be some discussion on removing forms of gambling imo. that’s just my opinion, not looking for people to attack me or disagree #LOL!!!!

    also i disagree with the fact that people are saying how other servers have forms of gambling because:
    a) it seems like you’re brushing off a current EULA violation #scary
    b) that’s basically saying if someone else is doing wrong, you can do wrong too.. #confusedemoji

    anyways that’s my two cents, it’s pretty cute with the bullets #lol!!!
     
  13. Shep
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    Shep Well-Known Member Premium

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    gambling ruins lives
     
  14. KhalDrogo
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    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

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    Fact. And for many kids on this server, this is where it starts.
     
  15. Kuriboh_kun
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    Drogo, if what you understand from what i said was "It seems that this is considered to be ok because “everyone else does it” and it’s not enforced." you clearly have a problem understanding.

    From what i see you never have put thought on the concept of a rule or law, something that i would consider of dire importance when taking part on discussions like this, so ill explain.

    Rules often are stated in text, but as any text it becomes relative to the reader and law and rules can't be relative because they are agents of fairness in concept, from that we can conclude that a law or rule will never be the text by itself, so then, what is a rule or law? The oxford dicctionary defines a law as: "a rule that deals with a particular crime, agreement, etc." so dealing with a crime could be one thing to consider, but whats a crime?, the oxford dicctionary defines crime as: "an illegal act or activity that can be punished by law", from all this we can conclude that a law is directly related to a crime and that to that crime to be one it needs to be able to be punished by law. Now, can a crime be punishable by law if there are no precedents whatsoever and the law is constantly being broken? improbable, but thats not good enough for getting to the core of the concept of a law, but as we said, there are no precedents and to the foreseeable futute we can be sure there arent any punishments, so for a decision making mindset like the one needed for rules and law we can say the "crime" can't be punished currently, and if it can't be punished it isn't a crime. From all this we can conclude that a rule or law is directly related to a specific crime and that crime needs precedents of being punished and it being enforced activelly.

    This can help us interpret the particullar rule we are talking about that im quoting from one of your comments: "all servers, entitlements, and advertising are suitable for children and minors (i.e., no gambling, pornography, etc.) and don’t harm the Brand." we know that we cant just take the text from what it is, more when talking about gamble that isnt set in stone, is breeding sheep gambling? it has chance of obtaining something more "valuable" sometimes, still i wouldnt call it gambling myself, grass isnt a real currency so some people may even argument if it even is real gambling, but the point is that the text by itself is no good, how about how the rule is policed? well, as Dex said the rule is currently not being policed in that manner and theres no precedent of they policing even server-run casinos like crates, but we know that other kind of gambling is actually being dealt with, so we can finally conclude that the rule doesnt refer in any way to any casinos currently on the server, any other interpretation is personal and as i said before drastic and incorrect, if you have any problem with any casino currently on the server is a moral one but i reccomend you stop asking the server to enforce something only a minority of the server has trouble with if your only argumment is a interpretation of a rule that doesnt matter at all to the people that actually made the rule.

    You may disagree with my point but arguments like this happened in history, one exaple is the prohibition era in the US where we can see very close parallels, and i dont see alcohol being illegal today ;)

    also, the last time i heard an ad hominem like "The last time I heard reasoning like that, I was talking to an 8 year old." i was talking to someone that didn't knew nothing at all about respect, debating, or being fair to the point they argue for.

    sorry for the bad english, not a native speaker.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2022
  16. boba
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    boba modern manifesto Premium

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    what do you disagree with in my statement Kuriboh_kun ?
     
  17. KhalDrogo
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    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

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    Kuriboh_kun, I’ve not once replied to anything you have posted so there is no way I have any trouble understanding what you have said. It seems that you are confused.
    Just because one of my posts comes directly after one of yours, don’t think that it is a response to you.
    You can rest assured of the fact that I have no need at all for you to be explaining anything to me.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2022
  18. Kuriboh_kun
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    Kuriboh_kun Active Member

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    I take back the first 2 lines of text then, sorry. 8)
    most of it still aplies, even the ad hominem part to whoever it was directed, your way of thinking about this kind of casinos doesnt go in line at all with the way minecrafts developers do. Your problem is not about the rule being broken, is about a rule that doesnt exist in that form. I strongly reccomend looking more into the prohibition era in the US because all your posts in this tread make futile arguments and history can help us dont make mistakes made in the past.

    replying to Boba, most of it, i think only the part about collateral damages is accurate, as i explained before, the casinos currently in the server arent the ones the EULA refers and polices, promoting gambling is a moral issue and should be issued by democracy and not just reasoning, complains are plain wrong because im sure the broad community that does enjoy casinos would have many. Also casinos are so common right now that making the information to build them public cant bring anything but good things if done correctly.
     
  19. Xstevey
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    Xstevey Active Member

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    :sob: This is literally me. I lost so much from getting a big win and then cashing in for more spins. The times I did't I just ended up losing the prizes someway or another. I havent been to a casino for a few months (mostly cause ive been inactive)
     
  20. KhalDrogo
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    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

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    I’ll take the written text in the EULA as the rule. Next time you get pulled over for speeding, just tell the officer “but everyone else was doing it” and see how that works out.
    And if you think really think that showing children how to build casinos in an online game can’t bring anything but good, then you and I are never going to agree because I find that statement ludicrous.
    Best you and I just ignore each other.
    You think casinos in a game played by children, is a good thing and I think it a bad thing. Let’s just leave it at that.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2022
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