There appears to be a level of inconsistency surrounding island trading. (And specifically what constitutes “dirt trade”) Due to the inconsistency, I thought it would be useful to ask and maybe get a somewhat permanent answer with more clarity. The question came about as a user on Economy wanted to sell their island (with a sizable melkin farm) and the mod online at the time mentioned that in their view, that would constitute dirt trade. From my understanding from other mods, it only really constitutes dirt trade if the dirt is leaving the island it was originally placed / generated on. The implications of the decision can be kinda far reaching which is why I wanted clarity. For example, if buying the island constitutes dirt trade, then: - doesn’t changing coop leadership count as dirt trading? (If not - why not? That’s how you’d buy an island anyways) - wouldn’t it be illegal to pay someone else to build a farm for you?
I believe the Skyblock side policy is that island sales are only allowed to have up to 77(ish) grass or dirt at the time of the sale, since that's the original amount of grass/dirt the island spawns with. Is it different on Economy?
I would also like a firm answer on this. Last year, I wanted to buy an island and I was told I would not be allowed to purchase it, as it was covered in grass and this would consitute a dirt sale. I was specifically told that attempting to make a purchase would be in violation of the rules. Since then, I've seen many people trying to sell islands with placed dirt, podzol, grass, mycelium, tilled farmland - all of which dig up as dirt and, as I was told by a staff member, would constitute dirt trade and would not be allowed. Any time this conversation is brought up there are multiple different answers given by players, different answers given by staff, and the whole thing is just confusing. We need staff to discuss as a team and come to a firm decision on where the line is when it comes to buying and selling islands and farms to/from other players, and the Rules need to be clarified.
Trading islands with placed grass, dirt, mycelium, etc is prohibited if it exceeds the original starter amount. This is stated in our rules. 'Farms' on Economy are included in this. The trade of any dirt items from player to player is also prohibited as per our rules. This includes, but is not limited to, the sale of dirt items placed, or unplaced, and, providing another player with dirt to build a farm for you.
Could you provide clarification then, on why some players have managed to purchase islands off of each other, with amounts of placed dirt which would violate the rules, and have proof of staff saying its OK?
If you'd kindly DM me on Discord with more information on this and said proof, I can evaluate from there. Thanks.
I don't understand this one. You buy dirt for your own island. Why can't you get someone else to place it?
Technically you're still giving that item to them. It becomes a grey area with logs as they have then placed that block. In some cases the dirt could be traced back to where they've received it, which would be a chest, but sometimes not. It's advisable not to give another player illegal items.
I appreciate the answer, but honestly it only raises more questions for me, personally. I brought it up as an example in the OP, but if you are in a coop, and the coop leader changes, isn't that an illegal trade under this definition? Is there an amount of time you have to be cooped before changing leaders becomes legal? Sky brought it up, but "paying someone to build a farm for you" has seemingly always been allowed, but the language used makes it sound like this is illegal Is it illegal for Player A to pay Player B to place dirt (purchased by player A) in the process of building a farm on Player A's island? (Building a farm; supplies already paid for) Is it illegal for Player B to place dirt (purchased by Player A) on Player A's island if they aren't getting paid? (Free building) Is it illegal for Player B to place dirt (purchased by Player B) on Player A's island if they are getting paid? (Building a farm, supply fees including in Player B's price) Is it illegal for Player B to place dirt (purchased by Player B) on Player A's island if they aren't getting paid? (Building a farm for free; as a gift) (I'm not trying to be tedious on this topic; the 1st and 3rd example happen with regularity on the server, and we've all assumed it was legal. The 2nd and 4th example are things I've personally taken part in as favors to a friend, and I even got mod approval for the 4th example)
This is another grey area. I can't really give a straight-cut answer as there isn't one. Everything is situational. Commonly in coops, items are shared, right? There is no real way of determining who's items are who's. For example: If Player A and B start an island together, at the same time, and start with only the starter items, both players 'own' the items that are placed on that island or are in the chests on that island in the future. If Player A is the original coop leader upon creation of the island, but changes the leader to Player B, this on paper is fine. Realistically, however, depending on the timeline, this would be nearly impossible to determine and confirm with the logs that we have available, thus a grey area. 1. Yes - Players A and B have inadvertently completed a transaction including dirt, which is not allowed. 2. Yes - Players A and B have inadvertently completed a transaction including dirt, which is not allowed. 3. Yes - Players A and B have inadvertently completed a transaction including dirt, which is not allowed. 4 Most definitely yes. This is purely dirt trade. Again, It's advisable not to give another player illegal items or complete transactions including illegal items.
Luka, I bought dirt and Dex placed it for me. And other people I hired to do that. I paid for it I paid them to place it on my island, how is that dirt trading?
Dirt isn't an illegal item. It's illegal to trade. (By definition) you are not trading dirt if you own dirt and pay someone else to place it on your own island. You are paying for a service: placing blocks. The transaction did not involve dirt.
See below. Whilst it isn't a financial transaction between the dirt, you are still giving that dirt to someone else to place. You're all making very good points and I'm simply trying to interpret the rules. There have been many discussions on the forums regarding the ruling of dirt, and in particular of it being an illegal item. Perhaps the ruling does need to be adjusted, but, we can't be too specific in ruling. With how things are reported, and with the available logs that we have, it's far easier to have a straight-cut ruling of no trading of dirt.
Disrespectfully - go back to /skyblock (Not actually intended to be disrespectful, I'm being snarky) Truthfully - I'm actually just in awe at all 4 of these being a "yes" because as I said, 2 of them happen regularly on /economy. Admittedly that was also during a time when eco had more...eco-centric mods like Meggann and Novembree both relatively active, and I understand rulings can change over time. Frankly I'd love to see what Krissy has to say on the topic. (Or are you speaking for all mods in your response to this topic?)
This is my interpretation of the ruling. Even before being a staff member, this is how I've interpreted the rules. I'd think it's pretty straightforward that if an item is illegal to trade, you don't give those items to another player under any circumstances.
What about this scenario: Player A buys grass for Player B (grass trade is legal) Player B, using only the grass provided by Player A builds an island / farm Player B, wants to sell this island / farm. Player A is interested in buying. Since grass can only be picked up as dirt, wouldn't this also be dirt trade? Despite...no dirt having been generated or possibly even traded (assuming the grass stays as grass)
The primary purpose of dirt trade being illegal on both servers is to discourage people from island farming, and to date, it's done a great job at doing that. You then throw in the fact that on Economy, Dirt is essentially a renewable and unlimited resource because it's purchasable through /shop. This brings in a completely different dynamic of how players are interacting with Dirt. Maybe a separate ruling needs to be applied to Economy? In this scenario, Player A, or any other player who buys the island is essentially purchasing dirt as that's the only resource that can then be gained from that sale (in the scenario that they break the grass blocks). Having said this, again, with the available logs that we have, and depending on the timeline, it would be nearly impossible to determine that this scenario has taken place. We can't change the ruling to be so specific as 'You can place grass and then immediately sell that island because it's grass, but only within a certain window of time because that's how long our logs last for'. (it's very broad and unofficial but i'm sure the point gets across) Simply, there are so many scenarios that we can't specify the ruling to the T.
