Hello,

I'm primarily a Survival player but I've been playing more and more on Economy as well, and have enjoyed rustling my way from the ground up all over again Just today, I implemented an automatic pork farm, threw a rudimentary chicken farm together, made great progress on my platforming (plz send cobble), and GaroldGarcia upgraded our measly little cobble gen to something much less embarrassing.

Premise:
As a newer player (16.5 hours logged thus far), I have a fairly modest farm and only one crop hopper (lvl 3) at present. When I saw the tax system took a FLAT fee per crop hopper, per in-game day, I wondered to myself if I would even come out ahead due to my meager crop earnings! Furthermore, I have seen mentions of tax evasion in the chat, even from players far, far richer than I, so I was curious about how the system was really working out for people... So, I observed the system so you don't have to....

Method:
I waited [im]patiently for a tax collection event to occur, then monitored the chat constantly for vote parties and any other events that might change my balance. I took my balance at the beginning, just after the first tax collection event. I waited for an in-game day to pass, then checked my balance once again. No VPs occurred, and I did not actively sell or buy anything: the only money coming in was from goods sold via my crop hopper, and the only money going out was to the dreaded Tax Man (tm). I made sure the crop hopper-containing chunk was loaded at all times and have the following crops planted and fully mature:

33 cacti
8 sugarcane
42 pumpkin / melon
(83 total plants)

Conclusions:
I began with B 53,403.94, was taxed B 24.00, and ended with B 53,402.65. I lose B 1.29 per in-game day, or about B 92.88 per real-life day. Is that amount a big deal? No, not at all: it has certainly inspired me to go spend my whole bal on a new ream of dirt (though, my current bal only affords me a stack, and that's if I'm going for broke!). But in principle, it is not good to have a server which encourages new players to expediently adopt crop hoppers as a tool in farming, only to turn around and swat those new players with taxes that penalize their use.

Suggestions, in sum:
Any of the following measures will alleviate this issue.

1) Recommend the use of crophoppers ONLY after X plants are planted in a chunk. Obviously 128 is going to be a rule-of-thumb, bare minimum. I, personally, don't mind clearing a field of wheat, for example, by hand or with a quick flush farm, up to 256 or so. Before the tax implementation, however, a crop hopper saved me time and hassle! Now, I'm going to have to remove it until I'm a better player, but this means there is no point in me AFK'ing.
2) Marginalize the tax system better. Of course, we already tax based on crop hopper levels and quantities, but I think some tweaking should occur so as not to discourage new players from using and implementing one of Eco's most basic features. I propose that the first crop hopper is free of tax. This will also encourage creative efficiency in other, non-newbie players, I would think. Win-win.
3) Stop tax evasion by charging players whether they were online for the taxation event, or not. Not if they've been offline for hours, but rather, if a player has been logged in at ANY point during a tax period, they should get charged tax. There are no other easy ways to prevent log-offs for tax evasion (that I can think of) and all the current system does is harm fair players. It also discourages continuity in chat, if people are logging off to avoid taxes.

Caveats:
Perhaps my net loss to the Tax Man (tm) is indicative of my inferiority as an Eco player. Fair enough! I'm still new-ish. But it should be noted that I had planted all my crops before the tax system was added- I had a huge leg up to a brand-new player! Not only that, I'm well-enough experienced on survival to a) know a lot about SkyBlock in general and b) to have folks recognize me in Eco and be willing to lend my friendly, bumbling self a hand when I had questions. New players do not have these advantages.

Another caveat is that I have spent time dipping my toes into lots of endeavors on Eco: pig farm, chickens, platforming my island. Perhaps I could have dedicated some of that bal and time to more crops. Nonetheless, I do not ultimately think my behavior as a player is abnormal, and for the purposes of this post, should be taken as representative- a player with 16.5 hours of active (no AFK) time should be able to use a crop hopper without losing money.

Thank you all, as always.

Love and hugs,
Slag

<<edit: other caveat is that this was only one tax cycle, I did not track my ups and downs through multiple tax periods. Nonetheless, I believe my points still stand, as a player shouldn't be losing any money ever for using a crop hopper. >>

<<edit2: another point: I do not gamble. I have never gambled. I will not gamble. That is a personal preference, I don't mind if other people enjoy the thrill. However, I am unsure if pooling taxes to contribute to a lottery I will never, on principle, buy a ticket for, is really fair. I do not wish to be forced to participate, even indirectly, in gambling. Are there better uses for the bal? I think completely random giveaways, even, would be fine- gambling, I'm less keen on. Let meknow your thoughts.

 

I am enjoying the discourse here. The following fundamental points stay with me:

1) Crop hopper taxes hit newbies disproportionally and they render the use of crop hoppers out-of-reach profit-wise until mid-late game, despite that they are advocated for, for everyone, via the in-game broadcast feature and the /warp instructional
2) Adding tax funds to a gambling pool (lottery, raffle, not sure if nomenclature / semantics important here) is not just to kids / non-gambling players, or, it could mean SkyBlock may find itself in trouble with Mojang's EULA
3) Tax evasion is far too easy, else, AFKing is discouraged. I support tax evasion until the tax pool goes somewhere other than toward gambling.

And yes, since I posted this, taxes appear to have tripled according to forum posts. I will be taking down my crop hopper and figuring out other ways to machine my way into profit until that is settles.

Thank you, all, for your inputs. Please keep it going.

 

Supporting bc i dont know what's going on w taxes but 1.19 should not have meant it was harder to make money the same ways it was in 1.12 without adding alternate ways of making money; which this server refuses to do.

 

QUOTE="KhalDrogo, post: 1611894, member: 61989"]I don't know if it's been considered when determining taxes, but to build a 5x5 chunk 13 layer farm costs $66,560,000 for the dirt alone! Then there is the croppers and lighting, and weeks to months of effort building it.
It takes a long while before you make that back let alone start making a profit.

I have no problem with a tax system, but how do I apply for a tax deduction for my expenditure.[/QUOTE]

Tax write-offs! Bahaha love that. Fair point, but also funny.