Hello, it's Lee again, with yet another rant. Today I will be proving that Net has an economy of it's own, no matter how vague it may be. *Bows* First I will provide a definition of what an economy is: An economy or economic system consists of the production, distribution or trade, and consumption of limited goods and services by different agents in a given geographical location. When 2 Skyblocker's trade iron ingots (a limited good), that is by itself a miniature economy. Even though it may not have an explicit value (like Org's economy does), it is still an economy as there is the distribution of material goods (in which is limited). Different agents (in this case, Skyblocker's) are trading, and are also in separate geographical locations (different islands), so it is a system of trade. Even a trade of services such as: "Build me a grand Star Destroyer on my island and I'll pay you a cobblestone" is considered "economy". This is upheld by our definition, consisting of the production of service. Now I will refute an opponent's argument. "There is no economy on net. never was, never will be. Its just a bunch of players making items prices based on how much they want for something. Then if the player is influential enough, people start believing that is the correct price and then we have new, ridiculous prices like 40-50 diamonds for a beacon." To an extent, this is true. Players DO make items' prices based on the need or desire. Also, if that player is influential enough, players start believing that is the correct price. That's also true. But... how does that even reflect a non-existent economy... Skyblock.ORG has the exact same issue (players controlling prices) and Org has a definite economy. Therefore, using laws of logic, Net must have an economy, as production --> distribution occurs within players controlling prices. That's about it. Thanks.
That won't ever work, because players will always sell for cheaper than the set price, and admins NEVER make rare items any cheaper than the "expensive margin" or else that would destroy economy just as bad.
This has been said over and over and over again...no. Staff do not set the prices for items, and never will. The beauty of Skyblock's economy is that it is player based. The players make the prices. This way, it constantly changes.
Skyblock does have an economy, any server where items are traded in any way will have an economy. Just a fact.
Any reason for the disagree, Krissy? Or do you just not like my post... lol. If you don't have a post reasoning about this, don't disagree... simply dislike the post.
No. Rant all you like, doesn't change a thing. Net is a survival server. All people are meant to do is trade goods to survive. We were selling quartz blocks at 1-2 a diamond. Now it has a set price cheaper than the most expensive we made it. Did the server break? Did trading stop? No. If cyp made diamonds worth one iron, nothing will happen. Because the aim of skyblock.net is to SURVIVE. Not to use real life economics in a video game. That is why org is the economy server. If there is an "economy" it's player made and ridiculous. Literally it's kids making prices they wanted then it being taken as the real prices. It's a video game. Just play it.
So, I agree with practically everything you said except for this: "No. If cyp made diamonds worth one iron, nothing will happen." I'll leave that to you to figure out why that's completely wrong... you've been on Net for long enough, you should know.
I don't know why we're talking about survival, I was talking about the proof of economy >_> But anyways, you've made your point clear. I think we're talking about 2 different points here, so thanks for posting, but please understand that we're arguing about 2 different things xD
Your definition of an economy is entirely correct, but the arguing points towards defining the activities on .Net are inherently incorrect to my way of thinking. If two farmers traded goods for services, it wouldn't be defined as an economy, but more so nothing more than a trade. Similarly if a hunter traded pelts or furs for a meal or a place to stay, it is again not economic driven but again just a simple one-off trade of what the parties involved defined as the value of their end of the trade. What happens on .Net is just a larger example of what I listed above. In order for an economic structure to be formed, it would have to be based on a consensus, and enforced regularly to ensure consistency. As Krissy rightly pointed out, people make prices based on what they think the value of the item is worth, and most importantly, - to them -. Given that people do not all share the same sense of value, (I - for example, place value based on practicality. Diamonds have little value to me, whereas red stone is quite valuable.), prices will vary incredibly based on personal interest and need for the goods, availability, and how urgent the need is.
Finally, a legitimate argument. Thanks for the opportunity of a fine debate First off, if two farmers traded goods for services, you are right in defining that as trade. But trade (the distribution of goods) itself is a type of economy. It is also literally stated it in the definition- "economy or economic system consists of the production, distribution or trade". It IS, however, economic driven, because trade is to exchange excess goods for other valued items. Even a simple trade can be a miniature economy. An economy doesn't have to be enforced regularly at all to be considered legitimate. That's the literal definition of capitalism, or free trade without the regulation of a government (in this case, a shop made by staff).
Does an economy have to have a set price? Bitcoin doesn't, but it's still an economy, and constantly traded / sold / distributed.
Everything with a buy/sell is an economy. A stick is worth nothing. That's part of the economy. A diamond is valuable. That's part of the economy. All servers that have trading, buying, and/or selling. Has. An. Economy.
As I said, your definition of the term and understanding of how an economy are not wrong. I'm saying that the practical application of an economic structure on .Net is not clearly defined as such. If you want to define it as a crude and vague economy, sure, by all means do so. By that arguing point, I could trade my co-worker a bag of tea for an apple and call it the same thing. Now could I go into a store and buy a bag of apples for a box of tea? Of course not. There is no standardization involve which provides the basis for a widely accepted definition of value to the items. I stand by what has been said previously, influential players can set prices based on their own personal sense of value, but it doesn't mean that the prices they accept and endorse are indicative of a structured economy on the server.
Put it this way, and I will make this true to the purpose of the servers: Org= economy. The plugins are set their so you can auction, you set up shops and things. You farm, you make money. Simple. Net = survival. You gather the resources you need to survive and build up an island. You trade items to get things. But just because we buy/sell doesnt mean we have an economy going. Quite frankly all I see is too much real life into a video game. There is no actual economy. We have elements of economics in our game, but it doesnt make it an economy. this is a server, a video game, fun, to occupy our time, for enjoyment. every part of the player made trade system and pricing is just too messy to even worry about trying to put real life economics in it. Before, I decided to drop to everyone stacks of grass, a stack of diamonds and a bunch of other things. There was no issue what-so-ever. I never trade anymore unless i really want the item. There is no point if players keep making rules that make no sense. So in short, enjoying having no fun. because when everything comes crashing down, it is the people who don't care about forcing economics into their gaming that will continue to find enjoyment.
Yes, I agree with all of your points. All in all, Net wasn't meant to be economy, but there is still economy in it, however "messy". End of debate.
this is the one thing. if you change iron price to 1 is a diamond, but keep grass prices the same, it messes with everything. because 20-32 grass is a diamond, and 2 iron is 1 grass. so if 1 iron was a diamond, you could buy 2 diamonds with 1 grass. player made economy goes down the drain if you need an example, i can buy anything i need or want, i can even make diamond armor and anything else, for cheap, now theres not much point in playing besides make an island and talk to people, because theres no drive to get something, no struggle, no challenge :/ things would have to be altered in a different way lol. as in driving more or less items in to affect prices, among other methods anyways
economy noun, plural economies. 1. thrifty management; frugality in the expenditureor consumption of money, materials, etc.
Your contribution to this discussion has been less than useless. The definition has never been up for debate, it was universally agreed upon, but thanks for that I guess?
