A 2nd Chance

Discussion in 'Discussions Archive' started by Shep, Nov 1, 2022.

?

Choose their fate

  1. Ban

    19.4%
  2. Unban

    80.6%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. KhalDrogo
    Offline

    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    2,541
    IGN:
    Drogo
    Noobcrew, if you come by Drogo's comments, please don't view them as nothing more than an attack of the staff.
    These are real concerns held by many long term members of your community and everything Drogo states is truthful to the best of his knowledge.

    Positive change requires first airing the bad.
     
  2. Queen
    Offline

    Queen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2021
    Messages:
    780
    IGN:
    QueenxAlex
    :lmao:Watch everyone on this thread get permed for “malicious gossip”
     
  3. Beens
    Offline

    Beens Active Member Premium

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2021
    Messages:
    191
    IGN:
    BeensMC
    Cal's recently denied appeal seemed to get dealt with the same level of respect as his staff app: practically none. They didn't even give him an explanation to the one question he had about previous offenses. As far as I know, you have to go back to like 2013 or 2014 for a bridging violation, unless I'm mistaken. Think about that for just a sec - a player that has been playing loyally on the server for almost a decade - just to have his staff app sit and sit and sit for over a year with no closure and to then be banned. Not that his actions should've gone unpunished, but perhaps give one of the most dedicated Skyblock.net players of all time a chance to redeem himself. I absolutely think there are dozens of players who have committed worse violations and received far less harsh punishment.
     
  4. Calidre
    Offline

    Calidre Experienced Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,175
    IGN:
    Calidre
    All my cards are on the table might as well play my opinion card too, got nothing else for me to do anyways lol. So here's some thoughts and opinions from the guy involved.

    First of all, thank you all for the support, it means a lot having people support you especially this many, doesn't need to be over big real life issues for it to matter. Everyone forgets that everyone else here is someone with their own life, many of whom would have clashing opinions on a variety of other things, yet they can all come support people they care about. Often I see many people jump to conclusions about the character of people because they judge them solely on how they act publicly on a game yet don't take the time to have conversations with them whatsoever (which is not a statement focused on myself, I'm specifically talking about many people here that are assumed to be toxic, disagreeable, or unlikeable for that matter). I encourage many of you to actually try talking to people who often speak out against things, because usually they're very good people. I know for fact people have judged me solely based on how they think I am over the past couple years I've been here, yet none of which tried to ever talk to me. Now it is just a game, there is no requirement to talk to people you can do as you please, but just keep in mind how you treat the people you talk to it can affect them whether you realize it or not. I can personally handle a whole lot of crap thrown at me, as I've dealt with it for years in school, but not everyone can and I encourage people to keep that in mind. Just some food for thought there.

    My opinion on the ban? I deserved one, and it was right for them to do it. There's a bigger issue than whether it was worthy of a perm ban or not, the lengths of bans aren't optimized or fair. As of right now (correct me if I'm wrong) I've never seen a ban go for longer than a month that isn't a perm, at least not very often at all. It jumps straight from 30 days to a permanent one. I may have seen ones that are 2 or 3 months? But still a very huge gap. The problem arises when you have situations that deserve longer than a month, but less than a permanent one in my opinion. There should be a system where bans can happen in larger intervals such as 3 or 6 or 12 months at a time. I personally think there should be a much larger gap between certain punishments. Disagree with me if you want, but it's somewhat demoralizing being given the same punishment as something immensely serious like pedophilic or doxing issues. There needs to be much longer punishments that don't end up being permanent but still last longer than a month, as it's rarely the case or not at all. Short bans do nothing. Reading appeals of people who get banned for looting for like 3 days are so obviously fake the majority of the time. No one really changes that quick. Waiting 3 or 6 or 12 months on the other hand, that definitely has an affect especially for younger people on this server. I can tell you for fact every 6 months for the last 5 years I've changed drastically on opinions, ideas, habits, behaviours, and other aspects of my life. I know repeat offenders get larger punishments after each time, but it would be much better if you gave slightly longer ones in the first place to lessen the amount of people that get punished overall. I've been here for a while now and I've seen countless people get punished, get unbanned and continue the same things and either get banned again or keep doing it and not get caught. Longer bans actually give time for people to change, and it might actually change whether people do things or not. Knowing you'll get a 3 day ban compared to a month might affect whether people even do something in the first place. Now all that being said, what do I think of my own punishment? Well, I realized I do deserve something. Whether that be permanent or not I can't really give you answer. I would personally prefer there be longer punishments that aren't permanent even as long as a year or two ban and limit permanent ones to even more serious offenses. I would argue that server related offenses should not be permanent bans (but they can go well into a year or two or more for punishment length), and restrict permanent to real life threats an issues such as some I mentioned earlier. I really don't care what happens to my own punishment now, I just hope for the future that genuine criticism is actually taken into account because all that ever happens is brushing it off and continuing on. When a huge majority of people that participate actively in your server that have wildly different opinions, and often disagree with each other agree on certain things that need to be changed; that's more than likely an actual issue and not people whining and complaining about garbage. Tired of watching the easiest solutions being provided for things and get blatantly ignored because people are too stubborn to change their opinion on things.

    Thank you all again for your efforts, you'll probably still see me around now and again on here since I do enjoy just discussing topics and providing help but unfortunate I cannot actively play with any of you again.

    Love from Cal : )
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2022
  5. Mai
    Offline

    Mai serendipity Discord Moderator Premium Premium

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2015
    Messages:
    5,120
    bro i get yall want your friend unbanned, and i agree, i dont believe in perm bans and i think people should get a chance (ofc other than racism and any other typa discrimination). but literally just get your facts right and stop using false arguments to support your points cause then it will lose integrity. i never duped anything, all i did was accept duped items. i literally got caught soon after and then got banned for 2 years in-game, had my island deleted and also got banned on discord for 1 year bc of ACCEPTING a couple rares when everyone else got off the hook from the jump or a month or two in. i literally was in the same exact boat as cal so stop w this nonsense lmao i had the worst punishment when i did the least damage in that situation, how do u think i felt about that? it was ridiculous. dont bring my name up if you wont actually judge that situation correctly.

    edit: not to mention i had to work 10x harder than everyone else just to prove id be fit on the staff team, while everyone else got pardoned like 1 month in or was never punished in the first place. getting dmod the first time took a lot of effort just bc of this duping thing that i wasnt actually involved in aside from accepting the rares that I DIDNT even use much of. they were jus layin in a chest vibing. get it right or dont mention me, thanks.

    accepting duped rares is not the same as crashing the server, jus putting it out there.
     
  6. Calidre
    Offline

    Calidre Experienced Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,175
    IGN:
    Calidre
    Not sure if this is referring to my own ban or some other comment I'm missing but imma just clarify it for everyone else anyways in case it is since other people (not saying you) seem to keep getting it wrong.

    No maparts were destroyed whatsoever like some people seem to think, the limit only stops new ones from being created not destroying all of them on the server. At the time, this was an intentional decision. Again, doesn't mean it was right but no previous work was destroyed.

    I was stupid, not a douchebag.
     
  7. Mai
    Offline

    Mai serendipity Discord Moderator Premium Premium

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2015
    Messages:
    5,120
    appreciate you clarifying what happened. yeah i in general dont think stuff like this is extremely serious to the point where someone can jus never get unbanned. its all just minecraft at the end of the day.

    i dont want to speak on your situation directly bc i dont know e x a c t l y what went down, nor do i know exactly what the staff team is thinking, but, when i was in that duping situation, the way it was handled was completely rigged and unfair. im not tryna say thats the situation here, but i do understand your frustration completely.
     
  8. Slikassassin
    Offline

    Slikassassin Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2022
    Messages:
    99
    IGN:
    Slikassassin123
    Here is what I meant by it being arguably worse than what they did: Even accepting those duped heads increases the number of those heads in use in the community, which lowers their market value. When the market value drops like that, it is not something that the developers can fix in a day's work, similar to how they fixed the entire map art incident brought on by this group in about 18 hours. Additionally, a permanent ban is worse than a two-year ban because at least with the two-year ban you know once that ends you can play again on a server you love. the only choice they have now is to play on classic With just two individuals actively playing in Classic and speaking on forums, there is no community-based incentive to keep playing.
     
  9. Mai
    Offline

    Mai serendipity Discord Moderator Premium Premium

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2015
    Messages:
    5,120
    Yeah but it was clear that I barely used the heads and the other rares. There were so many heads used within the economy before I got the ones given to me. The ones I had definitely circulated before I even had them, and I made sure not the mess with the economy, it just felt good to see them sitting in a chest.

    As well as that, I WAS perm banned. I just finally got unbanned 2 years later. I was the only player involved that got banned on discord (for a year, IT WAS ALSO a perm ban but i appealed it) + had their island deleted (and the funny part is it wasnt even the island that had the rares. cyp did that just to annoy me lmao)
    I had my appeals continuously denied until 2 years had passed, bc it looked kinda ridiculous that everyone else had their reputation cleared a month in, while I, who did not dupe, nor destroy the economy, had been banned for 2 years. I thought I'd never get unbanned actually, but I guess it was kinda clear that it was becoming quite unfair, even though it was extremely unfair from the very beginning.

    Just like how we're all lucky I did not completely destroy the economy with the rares I had, we're also lucky that the developer team knew exactly how the fix the issue regarding the map art problem, otherwise it would have completely impacted the economy as map arts have become a gigantic part of Skyblock, just like how the economy would have been ruined had I distributed the rares.

    and just to include: i had NO punishment history prior to the duping scandal, yet i was still PERM banned when everyone else was not. i understand how cal feels. but see, cals only been banned for months, mine was years. this is why the situation is different. i did not get off easy compared to cal.
     
  10. SuperCoolWimp
    Offline

    SuperCoolWimp Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2020
    Messages:
    105
    That’s it, that’s the last straw. I officially feel bad for you. Gal Pow. #EconomyRuiningBehaviorIsAdmissible
     
  11. Calidre
    Offline

    Calidre Experienced Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,175
    IGN:
    Calidre
    I mean I agree with the rest of your post, but I didn't get off any easier and it's not totally different considering I have no prior punishments as well. I'll still be banned in 1 year, 2 years, etc. The only difference is other people are advocating for an unban sooner than the 2 year mark, but considering I'm permed I'm going to be in the same spot any amount of time into the future whether it be 2 years or longer.
     
  12. Dausora
    Offline

    Dausora Active Member Premium

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2022
    Messages:
    55
    IGN:
    Dausora
    Okay, I know nothing about either of these incidents being discussed, but from the sounds of it, it's an absolute joke that we're still having these discussions. Worst consequence I would expect for accepting duplicated stuff is maybe a week-long ban, and that's pushing it as is -- to hell with how it affects the server as a whole, they exist already if somebody unrelated to you duped them, and it's a very small action on the part of the individual whether it has big effects on the server or not. Duplicating stuff yourself, yeah, that's perm material.

    As for the map art fiasco? That's just funny, to be honest. Last I heard it was done to try and change Noobcrew's mind on leaving the server unbelievably far behind on updates, right? Hey, if it works, it works; we're clearly approaching 1.19. and besides, legitimate map art is going up very fast as is, it's really quite stupid that we're still on 1.12 to this day for a multitude of reasons but the limit would be hit one day. The map art problem was fixed quickly, the duping may not have been fixed quickly but let's be honest, Mai really did extremely little wrong, didn't actually dupe anything, and I'm sure a lot of us would be torn on accepting that stuff or not even if we knew it was obtained wrongfully.

    I didn't know any of the banned users prior to their bans, but I have talked to Cali (and possibly Eric) and based on other peoples' opinions of them I see no reason they should still be banned; furthermore I see no reason they should have been permed in the first place. They should have been unbanned after like a month in my opinion; sure, it can be considered griefing, but it wasn't aimed at an individual or anything, and it was also fixed quite swiftly. Just sending a relatively harmless message.

    I don't mean to mini-mod, just putting my opinions in based on what I understand of the situations. Whatever happens, I want it to be abundantly clear that I believe in second chances a lot -- especially here where it feels extremely unfair from my limited knowledge of what happened.

    Also, I just like interacting with the community, and forums is highkey too dead to interact anywhere else right now.
     
  13. Mai
    Offline

    Mai serendipity Discord Moderator Premium Premium

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2015
    Messages:
    5,120
    i did not say u got off easier. i said i did not get off easier compared to you
     
  14. Calidre
    Offline

    Calidre Experienced Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,175
    IGN:
    Calidre
    I just read it as "I did not get off easy compared to cal" as in you didn't get off as easy as I did, if that's not what you meant then my bad no worries, just read the grammar differently then how you meant it
     
  15. KhalDrogo
    Offline

    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    2,541
    IGN:
    Drogo
    Yes you worked hard to get back, but you got back.
    If Kera is to be believed, Calidre isn't coming back. "All further appeals will be denied"
     
  16. Mai
    Offline

    Mai serendipity Discord Moderator Premium Premium

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2015
    Messages:
    5,120
    thats fine. yeah u misunderstood me, i was responding to silk about him saying i got let off a month in. i meant i did not get off easier than u. u havent been unbanned so u havent even gotten off any hook yet so i wouldnt mean it like that

    i was also told i will not be unbanned, but i eventually was so.. (this situation could be diff tho but we never know) .. and regardless, i think we all agree it did not make sense for me to get perm banned for that long when we think about how easy everyone directly involved got off

    my point is, do not compare my situation to cal's, especially in this way. not only did i get perm banned for something i barely took part in, (the ban reason "duping" was inaccurate as well), but i also did not have anyone calling out the injustice and i had to deal with it myself. so downplaying how i was treated is disrespectful to me and i would appreciate my situation not be discussed in this manner because it is not true. i know, we all want cal and the rest unbanned yknow however, you dont have to discredit me or downplay my experience w this server jus to get your point across. that is what im tryna say
     
  17. KhalDrogo
    Offline

    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    2,541
    IGN:
    Drogo
    It was Drogo who first linked your post here but it was not done specifically to draw comparison between your case and theirs, but to highlight the falsities, contradictions, inconsistency, etc in how permanent bans are handed out. Drogo's own bans were also referenced which were given despite no substantiated reasons. What you have added to the thread only adds weight to the point that Drogo makes.

    Essentially, Staff issue these permeant bans without a care for getting the whole story. In what decent ruling system does this ever happen??
    If staff are happy to issue such serious punishments without taking the effort to get the whole story, not even bothering to talk to both parties, then they clearly do not care if their ruling is correct or not.
    If they act with only half the information, then half the time, they will be WRONG! And 100% of the time, they won't know if they were or not.

    Drogo recently corrected the misconception most people on this server had, that we are donors. We are not, we are paying customers, and need to be dealt with as such.
    Staff opinion CANNOT affect judgement of the servers paying customers as it so often does. Doing so breaks LEGAL boundaries!!
    Staff need to understand and respect the positions they hold and currently they do not!

    Understand this is not just a "block game". Skyblock is a business with paying customers and it must act in accordance with the laws that govern all businesses. Banning paying customers without proof or purely out of suspicion is not acting in accordance with laws.

    And Noobcrew, this has gone on for a long time now and as the owner of this business, it is fully your responsibility to ensure staff conduct themselves appropriately.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2022
  18. Mai
    Offline

    Mai serendipity Discord Moderator Premium Premium

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2015
    Messages:
    5,120
    My point exactly. I was on the same boat, like I've mentioned in my previous post above.

    Regardless of it all, valid points have been brought up and in my opinion I do hope some of them are taken into consideration and that all the important questions are answered at some point.
     
  19. Dausora
    Offline

    Dausora Active Member Premium

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2022
    Messages:
    55
    IGN:
    Dausora
    While I agree with most of your reply here, this sentence stuck out to me. Skyblock isn't a real-life business, there are terms and conditions you very likely agree to just by playing the server, and I'm willing to bet those terms and conditions include a staff discretion clause. I heavily doubt that anyone is being violated by being banned on a block game, even if the staff treat it poorly and fail to judge it correctly or in an unbiased way -- because there is undoubtedly T's and C's detailing that Noobcrew, and any staff he chooses to employ, have full discretion of what punishments they do or do not employ, and for what reasons, and for whom.
     
  20. KhalDrogo
    Offline

    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    2,541
    IGN:
    Drogo
    Skyblock, or rather Mineverse, is indeed a business/company.
    https://uspto.report/company/Mineverse-L-L-C
    And yes there are terms and conditions agreed to when purchasing from the webstore, however, the term 'discretion', as you use it here means "the freedom to decide what should be done in a particular situation" and Drogo is happy with that. The issue is the staff don't take the time to gather all the information and so they don't understand the situation, which is key in using discretion and making the right decision.

    Drogo will forgive your calling this just a block game as you are new here. While Minecraft might be a block game, Skyblock is a bit more than that. It is a social community in which many players have been around for many years. Many people have made numerous friends on this server and those friendships and the community means a lot to them. To have that unjustly taken from you is most certainly a violation.
    I have seen some of your posts on this forum and you seem a real decent person and Drogo hopes that one day, you will view it this way as well.

    And being a community, it is very very sad that we can't have faith in the staff to manage it appropriately. It's sad that we even have to talk about rights, justness and fairness.
    Perhaps the problem is that the staff making these decisions aren't really part of the community themselves.
    upload_2022-11-12_18-34-20.png
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page