Changing a rule.

Discussion in 'Discussion' started by trin, Jun 12, 2019.

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  1. trin
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    trin beamer boy Premium

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    I feel like there should be higher punishments for homophobia. As far as I'm concerned, it's just a mute, whereas if you compare the punishment for racism, which must I remind you, falls under the same rule as homophobia, is much more strict. I think homophobia should be as strict as racism, because just as racism is discriminating again a certain group of people just because of the color of their skin, homophobia is discriminating against a group of people just because of who they like.

    They're so similar, but I feel like they are treated like they're completely different.

    I believe that you should just skip the "warning" for homophobia and equal it up with racism - mute/ban.

    I know a few of you guys will hate this, but I just want you guys to think about this.
     
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  2. Monster_Sparklez
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    Monster_Sparklez Yee yee Bubba Premium Premium

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    I don’t think this suggestions allowed
     

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  3. trin
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    Oh well, if it isn't then it'll be closed, I'm not closing it because I haven't heard a staff say it.
     
  4. ItsRed
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    ItsRed Active Member

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    Different mods have their own Standards for good punishments southwark's punishments are a 1-3 day ban/mute depending on the severity but i do think the Minimum for the punishment should be increased
     
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  5. Frxxn
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    Frxxn Twenty One Pilots Premium

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    Most rules are at staff's discretion, those are just the standard punishments. I do not think this suggestion is allowed, but anyway I do agree with you and I support this.

    I think the "racism" rule should be changed to "discrimination" as a whole, since no sort of discrimination is allowed.
     
  6. trin
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    I feel like "staff discretion" isn't valid anyways. It's kinda dumb, to be honest. I think it should be a set punishment time.
     
  7. ItsRed
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    ItsRed Active Member

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    i made my change of a singular rule thread and michael commented on it without seeing a problem
     
  8. Teeler
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    Teeler Senior Member

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    some of the development team are literally moderators so it would be lol
     
  9. Krissy
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    Krissy Winter Bear Staff Member Premium

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    Even the punishment for racism isn’t long enough. I’m pushing for zero tolerance, full week ban for any discriminatory remarks.
     
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  10. trin
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    trin beamer boy Premium

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    Sumner reason for no support?
     
  11. Michael
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    Michael Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The rules already state, under the in-depth section of the thread, that no forms of discrimination will be tolerated:

    • Extreme Chat Related Offenses:
    Some extreme chat offenses include but are not limited to racism, sexism, homophobia, death wishes/death threats or discrimination of any sort. Chat offenses are always taken into context and punishment may vary.


    While it may sometimes seem that homophobic players are let off with a much smaller punishment than those who make blatantly racist remarks, we always try our best to fairly punish players for any discriminatory actions, as this is not the place to be making fun of or insulting others, based on race, sex, country of origin, sexual orientation, religion, or anything else.

    With that being said, every situation is slightly different, and requires us to look at the context, and decide on the infraction that we believe would be most appropriate. While we generally do jump to mutes or bans for extremely offensive comments, it is also to remember that comments such as those that could be considered homophobic under many circumstances, are unfortunately used much more frequently, and often seen as perfectly acceptable by individuals who commonly use the derogatory phrases without giving it much thought. While this is not at all to say that these actions are acceptable, there are many situations in which it would lead to much less drama if the online staff members simply gave a warning or a short mute, to remind the player that their actions are not acceptable, rather than immediately jumping to a long mute/ban that they player might genuinely feel is unfair especially for a first offense, in an attempt to just get them to realize that while they may have grown accustom to using that type of language elsewhere, it won't be tolerated on this server.

    This can apply to many more situations, dealing with various types of discrimination; however, I just used homophobic remarks as an example, as that was the first example provided in the initial suggestion.


    Discriminatory remarks will never be tolerated; however, the severity of punishments will almost definitely vary. This is not because one form of discrimination is tolerated more than another, but rather that each situation is different, and the severity of the punishment should still match the severity of the offense. If a player makes a comment that could not at all be justified, and was obviously either out of pure spite or an attempt to simply offend as many people as possible, we almost always jump to longer mutes or bans, especially for repeat offenders. With that being said, if a comment seems to be only mildly offensive, it should still be handled as we do not tolerate any sort of disrespect; however, it has the potential to cause many unnecessary arguments if we jump immediately to an extremely long mute/ban, especially if the player truly did not see any issues with what they said. Again, this is not to say that they were justified whatsoever, or that they should ever be allowed to make comments as long as it's not "too offensive", per se, but rather that it may turn out to be much more effective to give a small "warning" either in the form of a kick or small mute, and only escalate the infractions if it the player seems to be continuing even after the initial warning.


    To summarize the main points, discrimination is never acceptable on this platform, and will always be met with an infraction when there is sufficient evidence. Although it may seem that some forms of discrimination are not dealt with as harshly, we do always try to deal with these sorts of situations in the most appropriate manner possible, considering both the context and content of the inappropriate messages. It was never anyone's intent to make it seem as if homophobic comments are more acceptable than racist ones; neither should be tolerated.


    To briefly address this point, while I understand that it may seem unfair or unpredictable to be told that staff are allowed to punish players however they see fit, it is important to understand that this is the only system that can realistically work if our goal is to keep the community a safe place for all players to interact without feeling threatened or attacked in any way. While there are general guidelines, there are always exceptions, as well as various circumstances which obviously require a much harsher punishment, even if the rules do not explicitly state what punishment they should receive. We must be given "wiggle room", per se, with punishments, in order to more effectively and fairly infract players that are either extremely offensive/toxic, or those with extremely long histories of breaking the rules.

    If we were to try to think of every possible situation, and write out explicit instructions that we would be required to follow, there would almost definitely turn out to be loopholes in the system, which would be abused by players. Even if this weren't the case, it would be extremely difficult to write guidelines for every possible situation that one could encounter. To bring in an example, the rules never state anything as explicit as "If one is banned seven or more times within the period of 3 months, they are to be permanently removed from the server until they have demonstrated an obvious change in behavior and genuine interest in rejoining the community as a different player". If we were to change the rules to be this specific, players would definitely try to see how close they could get to becoming permanently banned, without going to far, as a sort of game.

    If an extremely toxic player that has been known to make racist comments were to continue, after being banned for the fifth time, does that mean that we should just let them wait out the ban, and allow them back on the server just to continue insulting others, despite the fact that they have proven that they are not capable of doing anything else, at the current moment? If we were to add the aforementioned clause to the rules, this player would technically be able to argue that they should be allowed back on the server, as they have not yet reached the limit of 7 bans within 3 months.

    While writing out an explicit set of rules for every situation would be fine in an ideal world, it would not realistically work, as that relies on the assumption that it will not only be set up without any flaws, but also that there will never be any situations in which a different approach may be necessary.



    TL;DR

    While it may seem that some discriminatory remarks get treated differently than others, we try to do our best to infract players appropriately, regardless of whether it involves racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, or any other type of inappropriate remark. Staff must also be given permission to infract players as they see fit, without needing to worry about adhering to any sort of extremely strict guidelines, as each situation is slightly different, and must be handled with context, rather than just writing out a list of procedures to blindly follow.


    With that being said, we are unfortunately unable to consider suggestions at the moment regarding changes to the rules; however, I have moved this thread to the discussion forum, for players to ask any questions they may have regarding either the necessity or the enforcement of server rules.
     
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  12. Armaganndon
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    No support, and suggestions on in-game rules arent allowed.
     
  13. BertBerry
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    BertBerry Moderator Staff Member

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  14. BennyDonut
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    Neutral,

    This really bothers me as you know the exact definition of what racism is but when you go to homophobia it very self opinionated and not speaking from a fact point of view.

    As Michael has said in his reply that this falls under "Extreme Chat Related Offenses", I get that you wish that racism and homophobia should be treated the same but the thing is the rules covers all things that are chat offenses. But keep in mind that every situation is different and that they should be treated by them self as if they were one thing under one board thing oppose to being everything treated as the same thing.
     
  15. trin
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    Armaganndon thanks for rating my post "old" even though I didn't even see that someone else had already done that, once it was switched to discussion I stopped reading the replies.
    not because I didn't care but just because I wasn't interested in reading an essay
     
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    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019

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