Economy Tax calculations to be tweaked please.

Discussion in 'Server Gameplay Suggestions' started by KhalDrogo, May 9, 2023.

  1. KhalDrogo
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    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

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    I had active only 25 croppers for a 20 minute tax period. I have more on another island that was accessed only briefly yet I was taxed 32% of revenue.

    It appears that the tax rate is being calculated on number of croppers active during that period regardless of how long they were producing

    It also means that if I log in only a couple minutes before 'tax time' and earn a measly $1000, I'm still going to be taxed at a high rate

    I hope that this is not intended and that it can be changed because as it is now, I (and others) are penalised for having more than one farm.

    A normal tax system, is based on profit, and my suggestion is that SB tax be calculated the same way.
    In Australia for instance, these are the tax brackets.

    upload_2023-5-9_20-25-55.png

    This could be coded easily and the rates and brackets be adjusted as needed.
    It would be of huge benefit to new players as they only get taxed if they earn over a certain threshold ($18,200 in the table above.)

    NOTE: The top tax bracket of 45% in the table is way too high for Skyblock because taxes in the real world go towards roads, infrastructure, hospitals etc, so tax payers still benefit from the tax they pay. There is no benefit in Skyblock.
     
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    Last edited: May 10, 2023
  2. BabyYoda777
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    BabyYoda777 Active Member

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    I think tax brackets are a great idea
     
  3. xphstos37
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    xphstos37 Experienced Member

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    Completely agree with this suggestion, particularly for the greenies. Let them pay no taxes till they reach a certain amount of income, or amount of crophoppers!
     
  4. JAWD543
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    JAWD543 Active Member

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    Not sure why they wouldn't just use the same tax system as real life from the start. This change would benefit newplayers and old.
     
  5. pringlesman35
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    pringlesman35 Well-Known Member

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    if we used irl tax system we would pay average income tax based on the past week, server would say heres a bracket chart figure it out, if you under pay u get a temp ban like irl, gov dosnt tell u what u owe but if u dont pay enough u goto jail. love the irs :)

    but for the tax bracket in game i do agree i think it also scales alot better the taxes seem to be very inconsistent with what ur earning overall rather then whats really loaded, i have 27 crop hoppers i own and the game things ive placed 75 of them which i must have placed for players a while ago but i get taxed 32% no matter where i am, i can be in spawn for 2 cycles fully and still get some weird income amount and a 32% tax when ive loaded nothing i own
     
  6. KhalDrogo
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    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

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    Further to the suggestion, because I know that Dex is busy, I propose the following tax brackets

    upload_2023-5-10_19-8-21.png

    The high end of each bracket is calculated from the money a player would make from a full height pumpkin farm running 5, 10, 15, 20...etc croppers.

    Essentially if you have a cropper farm with only 5 croppers, you shouldn't pay any tax so this would allow new players to build a small farm and make a small return on it to enable them to save toward expand their farm . Should they place another 5 croppers then they will pay only 10% tax on those 5 croppers (still no tax on the first 5) add another 5 croppers, and pay 15% on those and so on and so forth.
     
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  7. McAfeeSDQ
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    McAfeeSDQ Member

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    I believe they want to motivate the players to do with 10 hoppers what they could also do with 20.

    Two different farms designs that produce for example 5k, but one uses 10 hoppers and the other uses 20 hoppers. in theory the one with 10 hoppers uses less server resources.

    According to the changelog, each hopper that did "something" would contribute to the hopper count. So if you had 20 hoppers loaded for just 1 minute, and then spent the time in a spot with just 12 different hoppers. Your hopper count would be 32, but you pretty much were producing in just 12 of the total 32 farms chunks. This is unfortunate.

    This could be mitigated by making the tax charges just as instant as the revenue deposit. And then just report historic totals at the 20 minute mark. This also fixes the problem of the player spending all the revenue and having no money to pay taxes when the 20min mark comes.

    So. when money is to be payed. Instantly deduct the corresponding percent, based on the hoppers loaded at that instant.
     
  8. Queen
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    Queen Well-Known Member

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    Support, amazing work Drogy
     
  9. Dexuby
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    Dexuby Active Member

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    This will be changed in the next update, crop hoppers that haven't collected anything won't tax you anymore even if they are loaded.

    Which doesn't really matter because you then only pay taxes for those $1000 you earned - not a good argument.

    It is based on profits, it's even better than that, it's only based on crop hopper profits. If you earn money by actually playing (for example as a new player by selling your crops to the wandering trader) you don't have to pay taxes for those profits.

    Crop hoppers aren't really meant for new players. They are meant for players that already earned a lot of money and that are now looking to build and automate their bigger farms. Also keep in mind that you pay 1% per crop hopper up to 32% - even if a new players gets one it'd only take 1% of their crop hopper profits and they'll earn most of their money with non-afk activities anyways which we obviously want.
     
  10. KhalDrogo
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    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

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    It's not the amount earned that is important, it's the tax rate. In proper tax systems, there is little to no tax paid on smaller profits.

    It's not based on profits actually, it's based on revenue. It doesn't factor in the expenses. Revenue - Expenses = Profit.
    Building a full 25 chunk cropper farm of 12 layers costs over 63 million in dirt and croppers alone and brings in about 1.4 million per day before tax if afk'd all day. Without tax, it would take about 44 days before any profit is seen.
    Paying tax at 25% as they are now it now takes 59 days before any profit is seen. That's 21 million paid in tax BEFORE any profit is made.

    A simpler example of what is at play here is this. Say I buy a DP head for 10 million, and then sell it for 11 million. I make 1 million, but this system would tax me on the 11 million. At a tax rate of 9%, all my profit would go to tax and the trade will have brought me nothing.

    That being said, It's not possible for you to properly account for expenses. Which is also why you cant possibly calculate tax from any other income. Because without knowing what the expenses are, you can't know what the profit is, as in the DP trade example I gave.

    I think you will find that a lot of new players are looking to build cropper farms quite early in game.
    The 59 days I quoted that it would take to start seeing ANY profit on a full sized cropper farm is 59 days AFKing 24/7.
    If you only played 2 hours a day, that would take 708 days before you saw any profit.

    So I guess my suggestion to new players is to keep your cropper farms small and pay little tax or go big and AFK all day.
     
  11. Dexuby
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    Dexuby Active Member

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    That's true, we obviously cannot keep track of your expenses to build the farm so we usually assume that everything is paid when we make balancing changes. Reducing or removing the taxes for people that don't earn a lot with crop hoppers might be a good idea.
     
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  12. KhalDrogo
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    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

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    I earn a fair bit from my farms so I have no problem paying tax.
    New players with smaller farms would benefit greatly from paying no tax until they can afford to scale up.
     
  13. pringlesman35
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    pringlesman35 Well-Known Member

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    59 days is not only for how much a max farm will return but should also emulate how long any dirt bought will return profit, for melon for example, at least* 2 dirt is needed ($1600) 7.5 min grow speed, on average, ((when in a mixed farm)) current sale rate of melon, .25$,, $1600/.25 = 6400 times a melon needs to spawn for profit, 6400 x 450 (7.5 min in sec) = 2,880,000 seconds to return profit from 1 crop, 48,000 minutes 800 hours = 33.3 days per 2 dirt invested. now implement taxes

    for you to make profit pre taxes takes 33.3 days per dirt, further more i can do more math to find exactly how many days theoretically it would take based on each tax margin but thats alot more work for this then id like to do right now, just understand. at 32% for 33.3 irl days itl take for you to only profit 1088 of 1600 invested (excluding seed, crop hopper, time investment cost) which means even then you are in the hole for 512 which then you need to earn back, - 32% again cuz taxes would continue on further income on that exponentially till one day you are whole for 1 seed planted.

    also note this is for layer 1 of the farm, the higher up you go the less efficiency of the farm so for the final layer it could easily take over a year for any profit on that invested dirt
     
  14. AJZZ987
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    AJZZ987 Active Member

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    Support 100%
     
  15. ~Sky~
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    ~Sky~ Active Member

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    Not sure where you're getting this growth speed from, but the actual value is closer to 4min 30sec assuming 20tps.
     

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