Declined Reason and Mod Name on Bans

Discussion in 'Server Gameplay Suggestions Archive' started by xphstos37, Jun 17, 2022.

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  1. xphstos37
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    xphstos37 Experienced Member

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    My one friend who has been banned has been a daily player for about seven years. He’s been blank banned twice in three months, first one was overturned. He’s the richest player on both servers, if you ask me. I know cuz I was trusted on all his islands. He loved this server and overcoming in-game challenges and the thought involved in creating new things. He only played this server. He invested way over a thousand dollars worth of rank upgrades and island expansions and buying other players things. He’s made suggestions that have been implemented and made this server better for all of us to play. He is being called a cheater by everyone. Amongst other things. It’s not fair. He’s not stupid to risk everything he’s built on every server Noobcrew has made, since he joined, to be accused of things he is ...granted, possibly... innocent of. But if you guys want to ban those types of players, just at least let them know why. My friend truly has no idea why. It would have been more fair, as every banned player is allowed to appeal, new ones, old ones...but something is wrong with the process, here. It needs to be addressed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2022
  2. Krissy
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    Krissy hyyh Administrator Discord Administrator Premium Premium

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    The situation this suggestion likely pertains to is out of the ordinary and is not indicative of our regular protocol.

    Regular protocol already involves staff leaving a ban message, name or both on every platform.

    No one will be banned without a message unless they:
    - Have a very bad reputation and/or
    - Pose a threat to players

    These situations are very, very rare but necessary due to recent changes in the community.

    I would be pissed at staff if they banned my friend in a similar manner and would make a big fuss about it and trust my friend would tell me the truth. But other people have different experiences with my friend. I will still choose to deny they are like that because I love my friend. Simple.
     
  3. xphstos37
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    xphstos37 Experienced Member

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    But Krissy, no threat is posed (if it were in his nature, it would have come up before) and the only bad rep he now has is that he has been banned twice in a short amount of time.
    I respect him more than anyone else on here, for his true dedication to this place. If I owned this server I’d want those kinds of players on it. But respectfully, Krissy, when I’d be in the position to have to permaban them, I’d at least tell them why, and not add to further sullying their reputation by letting the speculation run wild, letting their appeals drag out cuz no mod can help them, and if they did truly break a rule, then we are done. But what if there is a perfectly reasonable explanation? What degree of threat or bad rep warrants a permaban that isn’t a repeated offence?
    Idk Krissy but this makes me sad. It would make me sad even if it was a stranger. We love this game on this specific server. We are on it every day. Tell us why and who before you take away our only addiction.
     
  4. CreamCheese
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    CreamCheese Active Member

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    That’s clearly not true.
    Skyblock Official Site | Skyblock
     
  5. xphstos37
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    xphstos37 Experienced Member

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    And Krissy, I’m not mad at any mod! You guys do your job, I guess I wish a daily player could at least not get a blank ban message. It kind of hurts, in various ways. Their rep, their feelings about the server...and I think it’s all so easily avoidable.
     
  6. MorayEel
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    MorayEel Active Member Premium

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    Here on the Skyblock Network, we enjoy banning off of personal emotions =D !
     
  7. CreamCheese
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    CreamCheese Active Member

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    That would also explain why a reason is not given.
    EVERY ban must come from breaking of the rules. Regardless of how severe a rule is broken, you can quote the rule without any specifics. When you don't, it raises more questions of the staff than the player.
     
  8. Awesomolocity
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    Awesomolocity Well-Known Member

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    I don't mean to be like...dismissive or rude here, but like...the appeal you're linking to was a successful appeal, despite the fact that the player (who has been around a long time) was literally breaking rules. Like there's no way Drogo was simply unaware of the nuker rules, and yet the ban was still reversed. I genuinely do not know what more you would like to see from the staff in that particular instance.

    Onto the specific suggestion, I think some staff points about how names / reasons shouldn't always be publicly attached make a lot of sense. For a vast majority of bans, they should be attached. And if I understand correctly, that is generally the way things are done anyways, so I'm not sure if this suggestion could be meaningfully implemented.

    I also think the community could do very well to refrain from speculating (either FOR or AGAINST) players who've been banned, because unless you have access to the mod's evidence AND the player's provided context, it's really gonna be hard to come anywhere close to the truth. But obviously we've all got friends on here and asking people not to speculate is simply not going to work.
     
  9. xphstos37
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    xphstos37 Experienced Member

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    It was spamming a command that wasn’t in use, Sheldon. He wasn’t using nuker. It was made inoperable but glitched and repeated incessantly. Noobcrew knew this and is why he the player didn’t have to state his appeal. Just informing you.
    Personally, I did not know a blank ban message wasn’t common, and my friend got two the same way, so I thought though the option was there, some mods refrained from using it. I’ve learnt they’re automatically filled in except by higher ups. I still think players should know that info when being banned.
    Sheldon, I defend my friends if they’re being spoken about negatively and they aren’t present. I don’t start these convos. I learnt the last time a major eco player was banned that even speculating about their ban in public chat isn’t allowed. Not for calidre, not for jawd and not for drogo. I mean I thought it was an unnecessary rule, at the time, but I get it now. You can’t talk trash about people and situations you really know nothing about. Apparently, you shouldn’t defend them, either. I’d rather, you shouldn’t have to. We all make mistakes or mess up from time to time, though.
     
  10. Calidre
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    Calidre Experienced Member

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    I’d support providing reasoning for every situation, including some that don’t need one to be provided as of right now. There are however a couple I would still think are exceptions.

    The listed banning moderator however, eh I don’t think in the end it really matters. I’m all for privacy so it really doesn’t matter a whole lot who bans you.

    I think all players should have a right to know the reason for punishment. You can’t learn without being taught what’s wrong. If they choose to ask, a player should be provide with exact reasoning of what they did. This could either be in the appeal or privately. If possible, they should be also allowed to have evidence of said punishment occurring if they again choose to ask (also with a few exceptions). Regardless if the person is being ignorant and obviously knows what they did wrong, it should still be in their right to be shown what they did and why there was a punishment. It really wouldn’t change the way someone appeals or behaves. If they’re going to fake their apology it’ll happen regardless, and in other cases it may help them see what exactly is wrong with what they did. And again, this doesn’t really happen that often but I have seen appeals of players not being allowed to see why punishments were given, and I’d disagree with neglecting them access to it.

    Back to the providing a name. While it’s mostly not needed to see who bans you, again I’d say if it isn’t listed, the player should be allowed to know if they request it (I’d add here that this would only be the case if the punishment involves strictly in-game incidents, privacy for anything related to real world problematic issues is 100% ok). However, I’ve watched a handful of punishments being tossed out that definitely were emotionally driven. If that’s the case I think it’s important to know who gives the punishment so that it can be brought up as an actual issue (no, this is not a passive aggressive comment about my own). To me it’s an issue to punish based on emotions and I’ve watched it happen, and it’s important to know if it’s a reoccurring issue or just humans being humans every once in a while

    But hey, these kinda situations rarely happen anyways, so just food for thought
     
  11. xphstos37
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    xphstos37 Experienced Member

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    Well put, Cal!
     
  12. Awesomolocity
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    Awesomolocity Well-Known Member

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    There's nothing in the thread that would really indicate that nuker wasn't being used, so this is new information to me.

    I should note that the majority of my comment about refraining from speculation was more to do with people speculating over "why someone was banned" and not your comments / posts about this. I've seen a lot of theories as to why Drogo is banned, and I feel like the people spreading these theories should stop doing so, unless they're able to meaningfully back up their claims.

    (I do realize this comment is getting a little off topic from the suggestion, but I think the suggestion has roots in Drogo's banning, so it's a little unrealisitic to completely separate this thread from that context)
     
  13. CreamCheese
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    CreamCheese Active Member

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    any command that begins with the backslash, '/' is a server command, there is no server command for nuker. nuker was not being used, if the mods are not aware, they could tp and check it or even ask. dont just ban without giving a reason.
    Noobcrew possibly knew this and overturned the ban without allowing any reply. Drogo was not able to make it clear that he broke no rules and that resulted in players like yourself, thinking he was cheating.

    This is correct but the staff need to back up their claims as well.
    Allgoodmate was banned in the same manner and despite him making an appeal over two weeks ago, when last I heard, no one had responded despite his appeal having been viewed over 100 times, not even to tell him why he is banned or who banned him.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022
  14. Krissy
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    Krissy hyyh Administrator Discord Administrator Premium Premium

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    The topic of the suggestion is for mods to add ban messages/reasons and names. As I have stated staff (mods) do this already. The bans that have been linked and are being refered to are exceptions to the normal protocol. I cannot full explain why and I know it would be great if I could so there would be some solid understanding. We are not allowed to discuss bans with anyone we are unable to dispute or confirm claims.

    It takes trust in the staff to accept that we are actually doing the right thing however this isn't something that the community is doing. The current mentality is to place staff to a higher standard than what we can perform. Mods are limited by the commands we have and what we have been instructed to do. If anyone is familar with systems theory we know that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Certain characteristics of the whole can not be easily explained or rationalised when looking singularly at any one of its systems. For the staff team this means mods being one part of the system cannot be looked at in isolation from the other parts of the system when something is wrong.

    In short if something is wrong with the staff team we have to work from the top and make the changes where it counts.

    Now going back to a few comments
    When we say a very bad reputation it is referring to players that purposefully break major rules on multiple occasions. We aren't referring to the average repeat offender. Again it is very rare to have this happen.

    Discord bans are done with a bot 99% of the time and will include a ban message at the very least. An appeal will be handled by the banning staff. Generally who banned is not as important than the reason and there are logs to locate the banning mod anyway.

    When I say "pissed at staff" I honestly know in my own self that I would feel that kind of way if my friend was banned and all we had was speculation. It is very good to hear that you aren't feeling that way towards us but I do understand it as a reaction.

    Banning people isn't really fun. It is a necessary step for certain people and certain offenses. It causes a lot of drama for staff in more cases. If I want to feel satisfaction I wouldn't be a mod. But I only took the role back because I had a genuine love for the community and it made minecraft exciting. To be perfectly honest these days my relationship with the server has been ups and downs consistently.

    So apologies if none of this has helped in the understanding of what has happened or why what was done was done. But i've tried to be as honest as possible in how i've approached the topic given the strict instructions that must be upheld due to safety.
    I can say with certainty that no one at this time is at risk of a "blank permban". So please enjoy the server.
     
  15. CreamCheese
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    CreamCheese Active Member

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    The suggestion was actually that a name and reason be given for ALL bans. An important detail you missed.
    And given that you can't ban a player unless they break the rules, why can't you tell them which rule was broken Krissy ?

    I don't think staff are being asked to perform at unrealistic levels, only that they state the rule that was broken if they ban someone. If they can't....well what do you expect people to think?
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022
  16. Krissy
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    Krissy hyyh Administrator Discord Administrator Premium Premium

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  17. CreamCheese
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    CreamCheese Active Member

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    This doesn't stack up Krissy.
    Why was drogo banned in april "without a message" when no rules were broken?
    You can't ban players if they dont break the rules.
     
  18. Awesomolocity
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    Awesomolocity Well-Known Member

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    (emphasis mine)
    upload_2022-6-18_10-45-45.png
    Regarding the red: if nuker wasn't being used, then disregard the red entirely.
    Regarding the blue: spamming has generally been against the rules for a long time - regardless of whether or not it's intentional spam.
    And again, this was a successful appeal.
     
  19. Emerald
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    Emerald Senior Member

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    I'm going to slightly disagree with you here. When you are banned by anyone, a reason should be given as some of the times the player can even be unaware of the rule that they are breaking. Talking about this specific ban, yes the player should have known the rules, but a reason should have been stated without an appeal needed for a reason given. The player should have already been given a reason before their appeal was even created. This is not how these bans should be handled, and one of the biggest rules about punishing players was that a reason must be stated, the staff team I was on could not stress that enough to me and that was one of the biggest things to remember. Players are given reasons for punishments that are very common sense, while there are some players who are not even given a reason with the rule being a little tougher to break/understand. So I personally do not see a reason to disagree with this thread, as what you are trying to state is 100% valid with reasons being needed for these punishments, with Krissy's exceptions.

    Although it was stated that no reason will be given if
    -Has a very bad reputation or
    -Poses a threat

    While I 100% agree with this, the player this thread is talking about is no where near these 2 reasons for them to not be given a reason, and was one of the most community friendly members on Skyblock, so it kind of boggles my mind why a reason has not been given, but it could be something more that none of us know about besides the banning staff.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022
  20. CreamCheese
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    CreamCheese Active Member

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    The command that mentions nuker fails so it did nothing. And there was no spam, Noobcrew has used the term incorrectly.
    The rules state.

    "CHAT OFFENCES
    Users should not spam, flood or be rude in chat. You should also not create fake messages as this is against our rules and counts as trolling."


    These were commands, not chat, they never went to chat, they were not visible. Spam is bulk messaging many people. This was not spam.

    You keep mentioning that it was a successful appeal which has nothing to do with this thread. The issue is that the ban came with no name or reason. It was hardly an appeal at all, just a questions as to why he was banned and the reason given noted no broken rules, so there should have been no ban.

    I agree with this whole hardheartedly.
    Krissy , you are essentially stating that these players have a bad reputation and/or they pose a threat to players.
    Allgoodmate and Drogo have both been banned supposedly under these circumstances.
    Regarding AllGoodMate, I don't know of his interactions in game but it appears, he's not ever been banned and has only just created a forum account to appeal this ban. Regarding Drogo, He has actively spoken out against the use off poor language and the promotion of casinos. If he has a reputation at all, it's for speaking out against the server with his focus being the protection of the kids that play here!
    So when you give no reason for his banning. One has to think that maybe this is why he has been banned.
    I certainly hope for your sake you have some sort of proof against these two players, because you are stepping into the realm of defamation!
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022
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