/warp casino discussion thread

Discussion in 'Discussions Archive' started by Krissy, Aug 9, 2021.

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  1. skaM
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    skaM Well-Known Member

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    A legendary dual indeed. However, last time skaM lost and Drogo reigned victorious.

    Probably cause the man is a walking Einstein. (very intelligent being)
     
  2. Kuriboh_kun
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    Kuriboh_kun Active Member

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    The comparison to the prohibition era is pretty accurate and if your point was informed on the topic (i can see your argumment isnt since all my examples are from Chicago and not New York) you could see the parallels are so numerous it seems parody-like.

    Also dont worry, im pretty aware of the fallacies i can fall into and i can assure you none of what you mention is one, if they arent actually named in actuall debates is for the lack of insults and this kind of arguments in real debates that count with an intermediator, as you can see, Drogo's last reply is only an insult questioning my own personal inteligence and the one before implied that people that doesnt share his oppinion flat out dont have morals, those are serious fallacies that doesnt add anything to the point and naming them as such is the civil way to address them as any argument must be addressed for a logical conclusion, also i may remind you that fallacies in this context have nothing to do with philosophy and refer to the logic and literary concept.

    I do admit that im off-topic by this point but so is Drogo as he has mentioned and im just addressing the concerns he argumented against the warp, so the same logic of this being a branch of that conversation could apply, especially when im exclusivelly repplying to arguments after my initial 2 posts, consciouslly only talking about what other people say.

    Now you say something very important: "Saying to just focus on "logical" decisions is quite frankly inhuman, they both go hand in hand with each other." this is something i coulnt agree more, but as you see, Drogo has previouslly stated that his side is only backed up by morals, not logic, i presented several problems that have historical precedents but nor Drogo nor anyone adressed even one, whats supposed to replace crates revenue, how are we gonna help the economy, how can staff even police it?.

    All of this taking into consideration that Drogo suggested things like: "And I agree with you that many servers have an element of gambling, which is to say that many servers violate the EULA. I guess, I just preferred this server when it didn’t." before i even made my first post. (wich may i add, its already off-topic and has nothing to do with warp casino) If the suggestion was just about warp casino being removed to decrease advertising i must say that thats just moral too, since casinos are way more popular than /warp info by exponents of thousands, the amount of advertising casinos would get from it is irrelevant compared to the actual benefits that making the information would bring to decrease the paywall to enter the market. All of this only applies with complete information and warnings in the warp.

    The oxford dicctionary defines gambling as: "to risk money on a card game, horse race, etc." and grass isnt money in any way since its not based on any commodity or goverment, something that has defined what money is across history, the definition that you give for gambling refers to the common expression used in situations like "He's gambling his reputation on this deal." this example comes from the same place as your definition and the correct meaning for this use is the one i provide, please check alternate meanings too, so no, no casino currently in the server is gambling in concept, thats just a personal extention you gave to the concept for the similarities you mention such as chance. Not the concept the language or any cientific source intends.

    Mentioning that the server existed without casinos so it should fine if removed is a serious fallacy, society existed fine before pennicillin for hundreds if not thousands of years but its dissapearence today would bring nothing but suffering, even more than if it never existed because all this time bacteria evolved further resistances since the introduction of antibiotics. For a more grounded example, Minecraft was very popular in the update 1.17, so with your logic removing all new content should be fine and cause no reduction to the game's popularity, but thats false, its a fact that players get accostumed to features.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
  3. KhalDrogo
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    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

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    So many things wrong with this pile of nonsense. I won’t bother to explain it to you because you are incapable of understanding.
     
  4. Kuriboh_kun
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    Kuriboh_kun Active Member

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    Still you feel the need to explain that im incapable of understanding? wouldnt the moral thing to do in such case be agree to disagree and leave the topic? youre comments are nothing but insults or things you personally think without any real argummentation, only concerned about your own agenda, a total lack of objetivity.

    I can tell you for a fact that if this was a real moderated debate the winning argument wouldnt be the one filled with ad hominems and a total lack of response to the loss of income for the server and other consecuenses. You are free to believe what you want about my arguments but if you want facts and not nonsense go show this to a impartial lawyer or other profesional in the area and ask what he or she thinks.

    Just consider the fact that you never suggested regulation, something i would totally agree, instead when confronted with the fact thats it isnt a breach of the EULA by me you ignored me, the owner of the server himself had to tell you it was actually checked with microsoft, and still, instead of searching regulation or any working middle point you escalate the conflict to a moral one, something utterly foolish for any real debate.
     
  5. KhalDrogo
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    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

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    I’ve stated previously that if gambling needs to come with warnings then it has no place in a game played by children. It’s essentially an admission of the dangers it can pose and an attempt to place that responsibility on children. This should make it clear that I’m not for regulation either. Leaving only the moral argument but you seem to think that there can be no debate on moral issues which is so incredibly wrong.

    As for agreeing to disagree and moving on, I agree with you there, that would be the right thing to do but I suggested that over a day ago and you came straight back with more insults so your’e clearly not interested in doing the right thing.
     
  6. Kuriboh_kun
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    Kuriboh_kun Active Member

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    theres no place for arguments that are only moral when talking about stablish rules, thats not personal, its a fact. as calidre said, morals and logic are not exclusive, they are deeply correlated in this situation, ill quote calidre: " Saying to just focus on "logical" decisions is quite frankly inhuman, they both go hand in hand with each other." this also means that just focusing on morals would also be wrong since as i said, not considering logic has precedents of causing economical and social disasters. any debate on any moral issues considers logic, tobacco is greatly inmoral, but i dare you to make an actuall working way to ban it disregarding logic and only using morals, thats why we regulate them gradually, its plain logic.

    Also you arent agreeing to disagree, this is a forum meant for discussion, and mentioning you agree to disagree is still mentioning you dissagree, thats a direct response to my coment as it is even quoted, if you really wish to be honest about agreeing to disagree i suggest keeping your opinion to yourself and outside of a tread meant for discussion or to make an actuall argument based on logic, if im replying is because i activelly disagree with the things you say and i know that this is the place to debate it with the community and get it to staff, and if i agreed to disagreed i would just stop commenting since anything else would still bring my point to a debate were my way of thinking can be argummented and supposed to be open for change but as the concept said you made a agreement that thats not possible, it doesnt matter how many times you actually suggest it untill you do something about it, and mentioning here or to me is not since it should be an act of self reflection. I dont need to be informed in any way about it since its simply not relevant if done honestly.
     
  7. KhalDrogo
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    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

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    Why do you think i’ve abandoned logic? You say rubbish so very often it is an absolute embarrassment to you. Studies have shown that gambling in computer games leads to to problem gambling in real life for some children. So logically, it is immoral to to permit it.
    Ignoring the statistic of these studies will most certainly lead to social damage.
    You say tobacco is immoral and dare me to argue to make it illegal. Well I don’t have to as it is illegal….when it comes to children. Just as it is with gambling.

    So many have disagreed with you but you still come with this diarrhoea that you spew over the forum. You seem to be the sort of person who thinks they can win an argument by yelling the loudest.

    I never ‘suggested’ that you lack intelligence as you claimed. A suggestion only implies. I was quite explicit when I made the ‘statement’ that you lack intelligence.

    I’m done with you, I will let you live in your own skin as there could be nothing worse than I could wish upon anyone.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
  8. UrsusMaiorus
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    UrsusMaiorus Well-Known Member

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    lets just be polite about our discussions :D
     
  9. KhalDrogo
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    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

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    Sometime polite is not appropriate. ;)
     
  10. Nomrial
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    Nomrial Active Member

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    KhalDrogo 's Post: "I just want to point out that I never looked to differentiate IRL gambling and online gambling. My issue has always been with gambling full stop and as you have used the term for both instances, we agree that they are both gambling.

    Studies have shown that loot boxes in games have lead to children developing real life gambling problems. This can't be ignored."

    My response: Gambling in real life involves money being bet to increase or decrease it. Gambling online for virtual items involves money being bet for online prizes that cannot be transferred back to real world dollars. It is bet for online prizes, not money; only to possibly increase the amount of value you have in a game like Skyblock. Gamblers have the option to spend their money to gamble online for virtual prizes, however majority of gamblers on Skyblock and other platforms use their online money that isn't paid for with real dollars to gamble. Nobody is forcing people to pay money to gamble for online prizes and Skyblock doesn't advertise it. People who gamble online develop real life gambling problems indeed, however, that doesn't necessarily have to do with online casinos like on Skyblock because this server has very strict rules on how drawbacks are provided and that the prizes are fully virtual. Virtual casinos like the ones on Skyblock only encourage online gambling that everyone has the option to gamble online or real currency. Even if they decide real world currency, it is legal under the American Law for this to happen because the Skyblock community provides virtual prizes, or a gift card that cannot be distributed back to real world money without drawbacks. However, moderators do allow drawbacks but with purchases such as ranks or possibly island expansions which are not in any way able to be gambled. Gambling ways are all over online platforms that legally allow casinos with specific rules. It's all over YouTube after one search, "Minecraft casinos" and in countless servers in Minecraft.

    To conclude:

    Gambling on the Skyblock platform is legal under the documentations of the American Law, and the Minecraft EULA. The EULA states 'no gambling' as in real world dollars cannot be gambled for a chance to increase or decrease it. Minecraft moderators even allowed casinos on this server because of the drawback policy. Yes, someone may develop a gambling addiction because of Skyblock but that has nothing really to do with it. Skyblock only influences online gambling with specific rules and methods of how purchases and drawbacks are handled such as money to online currency that is not possible to be turned back to real world money if it counts as online currency which is able to be gambled. I see that you ended your argument with Kuriboh_kun so I hope you don't bring this down the path of "argue until one is truly wrong". If you feel that you are correct, that's good. Be happy with it because it doesn't make sense to go back and fourth continuously with the same information.​
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
  11. KhalDrogo
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    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

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    You’ve given a long explanation of gambling in real life and how it differs from online gambling but that’s not in dispute.
    While I agree with all that you said, it hasn’t touched on the main point of my comment that you quoted other than to say this:
    Yes, someone may develop a gambling addiction because of Skyblock but that has nothing really to do with it."
    That part of what you said, in bold, IS my main point in the comment you quoted and here you agree with it. Whether it's legal or not, the risks are very real.

    I'm aware casinos have been around for a long time and I've not said much on them. I'm just dissapointed that Skyblock is now promoting them.
     
  12. Kuriboh_kun
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    Kuriboh_kun Active Member

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    you comments seem to be unable to differenciate between a game of chance and gambling, Pokemon TCG is one of the most popular kid games in the world, currently accepted to be kid friendly by several authorities in the area, still this is a litteral card game based on luck where the kid can win prizes worth thousands, you know the catch? those thousands are paid in schoolarships as this removes any aspect that could really be considered gambling, yeah, gambling is bad for children but the casinos in the server arent gambling, they are mere games of chance, im pretty sure any elementary kid knows about the concept of a coinflip or some other game of chance already anyways but thats aside.

    Any competent cientific study would use the textbook definition of gambling anyways, using them as arguments when the textbook definition of gambling includes money is just ilogical when computer games with actual gambling exist. (real currency)

    You mention: " Studies have shown that gambling in computer games leads to to problem gambling in real life for some children. So logically, it is immoral to to permit it." thats not only a fallacy but its clearly not what i mean when i say your argument lacks logic, i clearly explained i reffered to the lack of logic on how to actually implement your suggestion and inside into the future, this is greatly stressed by the fact that you have still not given even one suggestion or answer regarding the loss of revenue for the server, how it could affect the servers economy or how to even police it in the first place.

    Another important quote is: "You say tobacco is immoral and dare me to argue to make it illegal. Well I don’t have to as it is illegal….when it comes to children. Just as it is with gambling." This is another missconseption since i clearly didnt meant that, my context clearly suggest i refer to anything considered inmoral that the community has grown accostumed to, not if that community is made of children or not, i clearly tried to talk about how a law needs logic in its implementation, a very accurate example since this is a debate that has happened regarding tobacco lawns around the world, please stop interpreting my text as it best suits your agenda.

    I can't see how you and 2 other people, are "So many have disagreed with you". Thats simply foolish.

    You fell the need to mention that i'm "the sort of person who thinks they can win an argument by yelling the loudest" still im not the one saying litteral insults, disregarding logic, and failing time after time to give answer to real to issues around the topic, youre the one "yelling", youre the one getting louder. Or do you want to explain how the word "diarrhoea" adds to your point? or, how thinking making clear you stated i lack inteligence has a place in a debate? thats a textbook example of an ad hominem to the point of comedy, a fallacy that completelly invalidates that "argument".

    Also i cant believe you're done with me since you still partake in debate, you mentioning it is just another personal take you expect we use as arguments, if you really think its useless to talk to me, act like it, instead of only coming back with more useless insults and arguments that lack logic.
     
  13. KhalDrogo
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    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

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    More drivel.
     
  14. Kuriboh_kun
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    Kuriboh_kun Active Member

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    When argummenting something is nonsense in a debate one should explain why and give logical counterpoints.

    Mentioning it without any reasoning is what trully is nonsense, in concept.
     
  15. KhalDrogo
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    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

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    This is not a debate so the way you have gone about this and your expectations of how I should go about this is wrong. You have been wrong on so many points, it's really quite laughable.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
  16. Kuriboh_kun
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    Kuriboh_kun Active Member

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    The oxford dictionary defines debate as: "an argument or a discussion expressing different opinions"

    Krissy clearly stated: "This thread is to discuss the new warp casino"

    And i think its very clear we have different opinions, please revise your sources for your definition, i may add that i have mentioned several times this is not a formal debate like when i mentioned the lack of an intermediate. So the definition checks out perfectly.

    I dont have any personal expectations about your point, all my counterarguments like loss of revenue and impossibility to police are stricly based on history and science as my several real life examples show, and yours doesnt even use the agreed meaning of gambling in the language.

    I may remind you mentioning you consider it laughable is totally irrelevant.
     
  17. NotErics
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    NotErics Active Member

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    man another long thread that became an essay competition. Casinos are dumb and ruined skyblock chat, and gameplay, the progression of the game has completely shifted. Personally i believe skyblock would have been much better off without casinos
     
  18. KhalDrogo
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    KhalDrogo Experienced Member

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    Once again I have to explain your incorrect thinking.
    A debate might be a discussion but a discussion is not a debate. Just as a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square.
    If we discuss something that we agree on, are we debating? The answer is no.
    This is a discussion as Krissy said. It is NOT a debate. It’s not a competition, it’s not something to be won or lost.
    Once again, you are wrong.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2022
  19. Kuriboh_kun
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    Kuriboh_kun Active Member

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    Thats a little especulative eric, could you elaborate a little on how skyblock would be better without casinos with some historical example? also its totally valid to feel that the progression, chat and gameplay are ruined but thats not objective.
    Progression in fact has shifted but for it to be objectivelly ruined it should be unfunctional, this isnt true since numerous players have joined, stablished and progressed trough the server's economy since the conception and popularisation of casinos.
    Gameplay isnt objective too since as we know casinos a hugelly popular, them being one of the top 2 biggest economies in the server.
    Chat enjoyment is relative but i do agree that the common consensus is the one you mention, chat in fact has issues, but i wouldnt relate it directly to casinos since the number of ads for casinos and shops are very similar, i do agree that chat needs to be addressed someway.
     
  20. Calidre
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    Calidre Experienced Member

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    bro this is a minecraft server relax my man
     
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