Global Revisit Dirt Trade rules

Dirt Trade Rules
And why they should change​

When you look at the server rules they all fall into one of the following categories:​

• Making sure players feel safe, welcome, and comfortable
• Protecting the server from exploits or excessive load
• Making sure players do not get an unfair advantage over other players.

With one major exception - it is my opinion that the rule against trading dirt (and coarse dirt) does not fall into those categories and so the rule should be revisited. I think the rule, which has persisted for years, does nothing but cause confusion and harm. For example, how many times have you seen an exchange like this?​

Okay...I see what you're saying...​

So let's take a step back. The underlying reason for the dirt trade rule is actually to prevent island farming, right? And island farming does give players an unfair advantage over others. The question is - are there ways to prevent island farming other than making dirt trade illegal? I think the answer is yes.​

• Implement a cooldown on /newisland replace (potentially 12-24 hours? Maybe more?)
• Allow mods to see how frequently someone does /newisland replace (if they can't already)
• Continue punishing island farming

I think these changes will make it very hard to actively island farm without getting caught, but also completely erase a rule that has been causing unnecessary confusion for years. With that said, I wouldn't be surprised if this topic has a lot differing opinions, and for anyone who does disagree, I'd love to see your reasoning.​

 

While a cooldown would be able to be implemented, it would easily be bypassed by using one of the thousand free alt websites that give you throwaway accounts. Mods are already able to see how often someone does it but I don't know how or what encourages them to check for island farming - it feels like it would be very easy to island farm and distribute it out through a bigger shop since if it was able to be traded, shops would have a mass amount of dirt anyways. And I feel changing the rule will be even more confusing.. "Dirt trade is allowed, but you are not allowed to make another island to get dirt, but you are free to go to these shops and buy this dirt" Seems a lot more confusing for a newer player instead of just being flat out told dirt trade isn't.

Neutral - I would enjoy it but there's just too much that could go wrong and it adds a lot of unneeded stressing and watching. Just how sand and buckets were determined legal - it wasn't even beneficial to island farm for the 1 bucket and few pieces of sand - the over a stack of dirt that comes with the island? That's a whole new territory

 

I do want to agree on this subject, and my opinion on this is also the same as yours. There are some other things you have to put in perspective though, such as alt accounts being able to create new islands to farm the dirt to use to their advantage (such as island building and trading). There would have to be more of an eye open for these players and to check alt accounts, but island farming has not been a problem for players unaware of that rule from what I've seen in my time here.

It is possible, but there would have to be more staff on the lookout for these issues, when it could just not be an issue at all. However, for new players sometimes the rule about illegal dirt trading is questionable to them. I'm going to go Neutral for now.

 

Since both of you brought up the point about using alts to get around the limits, I'll actually say - yes that is a possible way to get around the cooldowns / suggested rules. But it's worth keeping in mind that this is already a way to get around existing island farming rules AND imo it would be pretty obvious (even to players, but especially to staff) if someone is using alts to farm dirt - not many people will have an infinite supply of dirt to trade unless they're engaging in island farming.

 

I think if island farming was policed better this could be a plausible change to the rules. I'm in favor of this change because it doesn't make much sense to new players and the question is always met with the hostile "IT IS ILLEGAL" response. With the recent news of the need to migrate an account before you can play on it, soon only full access accounts will be able to log onto the server. This will solve a myriad of issues, and I personally believe it will lead to an eventual decrease in island farming. Paired with a cooldown, the legalization of dirt trade could have some positive effects on the newer players of the server.

 

Poeple will still island farm and trade dirt even though it's illegal. Now with the addition of croppers there is so much dirt around that having the ability to trade it would be beneficial. Like Sheldon said it would be quite obvious to know if someone is selling a ridiculous amount of dirt if their bal and playtime is low. This rule really doesn't prevent island farming at all. It's too easy to just grab an alt and place some dirt in a chest. People will island farm so punish the farmers not the sellers. (Written poorly, too lazy to look over)

 

SUPPORT I LOVE DIRT AND I LOVE TRADING DIRT!

 

I always thought there was secret way to dupe grass using dirt and staff are trying to avoid people finding out how to do it by making dirt trade illegal lol

 

no support for reasons trin stated. but also having a high count for a cooldown will ruin a new player’s experience. some new players get highly unlucky for whatever reason off the bat sometimes, and having that high of a cooldown will just ruin their experience and then they would want to leave. and having a low cooldown would be useless at the same time. i don’t think having a cooldown is the correct solution. maybe there should be logs of when people type /newisland replace or something of that sort to show moderators who’s typing that command in a very short period of time and see who is doing it. if they notice a new player, the mod can choose to keep an eye on them in case of things looking sus or if they can tell that it’s someone else’s alternate account, they can take action. if you really want there to be a solution for island farming, then what i suggested may be better than having a cooldown.

edit: neutral

 

No support, mostly for reasons stated about alts, and adding a cool down to new island, would affect other processes like people finding a map centre island or those looking for island chains or even simply new players wanting fresh starts.

People shouting at new players about dirt being illegal to trade is something that should be discouraged, whenever someone asks when I’m on I politely tell them how they can get dirt by placing grass etc, I’ve seen many others with this polite approach too.

The excuse “well people dirt farm anyway” isn’t really a good reason to make it legal. I think there is a good balance with the amount of dirt available to people as it is. Need more, trade for grass, simple. Not a confusing scenario like Trin mentioned.

 

Since you both mention new players, I do wanna clarify that I'm *only* suggesting adding a cooldown to /newisland replace. When you first join, I don't think it does /newisland replace, since you don't have an island to replace (yet). So this shouldn't really impact too many new members who screw up and wanna redo their island - unless they screw up multiple times.

Yeah I do agree here and I'm not sure if there would be ways around it. I will say that even with these concerns, it's still worth at least reconsidering the rules regarding dirt trade since I think that rule probably hurts more new people than a cooldown would hurt map makers, ya know?

I do wanna point out that I'm not advocating for island farming to be legal - it should still be illegal. I'm just pretty confident that anyone who is island farming is probably using alts to do it anyways, except right now there is NO limit on how often anyone can do /newisland replace. If a limit was implemented, it would make island farming harder while also allowing for dirt to be traded.

 

tru when i joined sb as a greenie i steadily worked hard to get over 20 grass and got voided, kept grindin then lava was sppawn loll , mistakes happen , cooldown woulda made me rage xD

 

They did at one stage have an auto reply addon that automatically answered common questions asked in chat. What happened to that?

If they ever do fix the damage that they did to the server with the addition of Croppers, such that farming ANYTHING other than pumpkins and melons is worthwhile, there will likely be a lot of people wanting to recoup the ridiculous amount spent on dirt for their farms.

 

Awesomolocity trin Gamzee24 A simple solution for the cooldown, although a player could get away with a few resets of island farming (not a solution for the alt problem tho) would be to add a cool down that gradually gets longer. Like when you first reset its a 5 min cooldown then 15, 30, 1hr, 5hr...etc.

 

You could also only allow dirt trade after a certain amount of playtime.

 

To be fair, a player does not have to reset their island more than once a day, or more than once a week typically as there really is no point, or you are island farming. Personally, I would raise this cooldown towards once a month, and island resets are not meant to happen that frequently, and having a cooldown under a month would further encourage this island farming.

The larger problem in my perspective however are the alt accounts, as it would not be easy for the staff to keep up on who breaks x amount of dirt. I am guessing there are logs for these types of large amounts, but that is extra work that is not needed when it could be considered illegal.

 

There are some certain mistakes new players mistakes that give them no choice but to reset their island. 1 Very common mistake is messing up your first cobble generator. Most players arent aware of the plugin that lets them pickup lava from obsidian using a bucket. Theres also falling into the void with all your items.

 

Yes for new players I can agree with, but after you reach a certain island level the cooldowns could increase like that. I do see your perspective on that

 

lowkey eco sounds so intriguing til u realize u gotta just get a bunch of pumpis and wm w lvl 3 crop hops
but if all farm itemsvalued nicely it would be amazing to just farm grind no c/hopppers

 

Dirt trade is illegal. OOPS. I support